You can have a touch or more of anything. Since it is a spectrum disorder, I would say most computer scence people and many others have a touch or more of autism. Not enough to be treated for.

I've read about studies that say some kids with Aspergers MAY have speech delays:

Non-Significance of Early Speech Delay in Children with Autism and Normal Intelligence and Implications for DSM-IV Asperger’s Disorder by
Susan Dickerson Mayes
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, USA, SueDMayes@aol.com and
Susan L. Calhoun
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, USA

"According to the DSM-IV, children with Asperger’s disorder do not have significant cognitive or speech delays, whereas children with autistic disorder may or may not. In our study, children with normal intelligence who had clinical diagnoses of autism or Asperger syndrome were divided into two groups: those with and without a significant speech delay. The purpose was to determine if clinically meaningful differences existed between the two groups that would support absence of speech delay as a DSM-IV criterion for Asperger’s disorder. No significant differences were found between the 23 children with a speech delay and the 24 children without a speech delay on any of the 71 variables analyzed, including autistic symptoms and expressive language. Results suggest that early speech delay may be irrelevant to later functioning in children who have normal intelligence and clinical diagnoses of autism or Asperger syndrome and that speech delay as a DSM-IV distinction between Asperger’s disorder and autism may not be justified. "

Autism, Vol. 5, No. 1, 81-94 (2001)
DOI: 10.1177/1362361301005001008

If you have a speech delay when you are two then you can't have Aspergers. That is what the doctor said.

Speech delay and Aspergers don't mix.

feonad, has your son ever been evaluated for Asperger's?

Central Auditory Processing Disorder - I do think he has that alittle bit. He is slowing growing out of alot of things. He was very speech delayed as a toddler. He got everything including ot therapy, speech therapy and a seit and special repetition therapy.

Anyway we are thrilled with the progress he is making. He got all above average on all his state tests for third grade. Even the listening and reading part of the tests he got above average. I don't think he could be very damaged if he is doing so well on these state tests. The not listening would show up on the tests. Plus he is a regular class and not a special ed class since kindergarten.


If you can learn the nuances of taking these math and listenign and reading and reading compression test than you can learn social skills. I actually think he is one of the kindest boys I know.

I think there a a touch of autistic tendancy in my family and my husband's family. But I think it goes with a high iq in both families so we learn to deal with it as we get older.

If he could stop repeating himself he would not be made fun of. But it is sort of like a tick. He repeats himself untill you acknowlege what he said. I tell him to stop it (in a kind way) but he can't help it. He used to repeat himself 20 times so now it is only tops three times.

We are actually quite proud of his progress. Quite amazing. I think his iq went up too over the years. Delays without damage to the brain - sometimes the iq can go up.

Well part of the problems that I've noticed in various schools...at the beach, he's playing one day with these kids and they don't him. At school he's with the same kids day in and day out. They know him well and they know what annoys him. If one of the alleged "cool kids" don't like him for what ever reason, then most of the class will follow and not like him either. Parents need to teach their kids to be leaders instead of followers and the problem will be solved more easily. I teach my kids to think for themselves, to act for themselves and to make their own decisions and choices. I teach them that it's ok to be friends with someone even if it seems that rest of the class isn't friends with that child. But we also discuss a lot about good choices and bad choices in their daily lives. They know that smoking, drinking and drug use is a bad choice. They know that name calling, teasing, picking on a child is a bad choice. They know that when another child is annoying them it's better to say "it makes me angry when you do this because..." that's a good choice. It would be a bad choice to spread rumors about another child or physically fight with another child. They also know it's a bad choice to try to convince other children to not be friends with another child just because she doesn't like that child. And every day before they leave my house, they're reminded to make good choices.

A lot of parents in the hustle and bustle of the day don't think to remind their child what a good friend really is. I teach my children that it doesn't matter how many friends you have...that's not important. What is important is the quality of friends that they have. A real friend won't try to talk them into doing something that they know will get them in trouble. A real friend won't try to teach them to sneak around. A real friend won't expect them to dump one of their friends just because they don't like that friend. Children go to school to learn to read and write and get an education. Appropriate Social behavior is something that needs to be taught at home by the parents.

Feonad, there is a condition called CAPD, Central Auditory Processing Disorder, where hearing in each ear individually can be fine, but the "signals" aren't processed together efficiently by one's brain. That can present itself in a child in ways like you're describing. Testing for CAPD/APD is done by trained audiologists, not just through regular hearing screenings. You might want to get the book "When the Brain Can't Hear" and here are two articles that you may find interesting:
ocslha.com/Ferre.htm,
www.firn.edu/doe/commhome/pdf/y2001-9.pdf

What makes me kind of mad is I always hear about it at the end of the school year.

I don't hear anything then the last month of school the teacher starts telling us what is going on. This happened two years in a row like this.

I guess I have to warn the teacher again next year. He is a target because he repeats himself and isn't very socially aware.

Someone will say "hello, John" and he never hears them.

I know his ears are fine because I had them checked 5 times.

He is seems to want to keep what is going on to himself and handle it himself. You ask him about what is going on and he won't tell you.

I asked him if he wanted to try another school and he said no. I guess he feels it won't be better.


He very much liked taking tennis lessons and art lessons. We are going to do that in the fall. Or Hofstra University has a Saturday program where he can do like a art class and them a rocket class and maybe a tennis class.

Very strange to me. He makes plenty of friends at the beach and the pool. They are always designing some sand creation with a bunch of kids or collecing little fish. At the park he is the center of attention collecing catepillars.

I don't understand why it doesn't translate to schoool though.

First of all you need to talk to the school and let them know that you won't tolerate the bullying. Tell them that they are responsible for your child's safety and well being while in school and if they don't do something about this then they will be hearing from your attorney.

As for your child's social being...try something like the boys and girls club after school, or a sports activity, after school math or science club, that kind of thing. At least in a math or science club, he's sharing his time with other children that like the same of kind of things that he likes. There's nothing wrong with a child being intelligent and if math and science are what he enjoys, then pair him up in a group with other kids that also like those things.

Bullying of ANY KIND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED AT SCHOOL. Contact the Principal/School Board/Teacher/Social Worker etc make sure they know what is going on! HAVE them talk to him and find out what exactly is happening. Keep open communications between parent/student/school/teacher!

Fight for your sons RIGHT to have a bully-free education. Let your son know you will fight for him. Ask him what he wants to do about this matter. Have him be a part of the solution. Have him give you ideas of what is happening and how to correct it to HIS satisfaction.

A few yrs back my oldest son HATED his 5th grade teacher! HE still HATES this woman (he is now entering 9th grade). WE still don't know WHAT she did or didn't do to him or his friends! HE shut down to the point of doing In School Suspension and After School Detention because of this teacher! That and not wanting to do his homework. We ended up doing Therapy which he and I hated! LOL His older sister LOVES therapy! LOL

Most boys his age should get along. My younger son who just turned 10 can make friends in a snap! Each child is different.

Science and Math are great subjects for him to be studying. He WILL succeed in the future with these skills.

A person other than a parent SOMETIMES can get to the bottom of these types of situations. Why not ask father/grandparent/aunt/uncle/family friend/etc to find out what is going on. Maybe that will give you insight on how to help your son.

Good Luck.

I am the mother of that child seven years from where you are now. My son was captain of the academic team and two grades larger than his classmates. He was teased as being a giant and a nerd. For him, sports were a big help. Find a sport that your son can do well (don't just look at the common sports; basketball, baseball, & football) and give him all the support you can. My son found tennis and is now on the HS tennis team. He still does academic team as well as marching band and concert band, but encouraging him to be well-rounded and committing the financial support to help him excel in more than one area helped other kids to see him as a person, not just a nerd. It also helps on college applications.
I taught my son to never apologize or make excuses for his intellect, but instead, helped him to explore other parts of himself (music & athletics) that helped him to fit in.
I won't tell you there weren't some rough times, but high school with all its options and creative outlets can help. I watched several of my former students who had been "nerds" outgrow those awkward social problems as they diversified their talents.

Hi,
I also have a 9 yr old,I find that he creates his own network of friends through giving out my cell number :).
My suggestion is to ask his teacher or camp counselor who he plays well with and try and get their parents contact number to make a play date doing something the children will both enjoy so they can socialize and make friends with other children. I also try to make friends at parks of parents with children and introduce the children to eachother to try and get them to interact. Most times this works and they suprise you!

My heart goes out to you and your son. I don't know where you live but in my area there are some great Science and Math clubs as well as summer camps. It sounds like your son could benefit from being around other children who have shared interests. I think we sometimes forget how hard it is for kids to make friends and just strike up conversations. If he were in some sort of group with other children who are interested in some of the same things then I think that common denominator would really help him to feel like he belonged. Right now he sounds as if he is on the outside looking in. You will find what you need for him, just keep looking and talking to others. I wish you and your son the best!

I understand you, it is not easy to start a new realtionship with a stranger and in this case the teacher or another parent, but you need to think what is important for you.

Angel, my son, started in a new school this year. For me was very important to know the people who was around my child most of his school day.

I started last year by keeping weekly contact with his new teacher.

Maybe a journal with the teacher will help you to develop the relationship that you are looking for and also will help your child to feel safe in his school.

Remember, if the teacher knows that you are an involve parent she will watch for your child and will respect you.

Soon he will be on 5th grade. This is what I do every year. I always try to meet his teacher before the school start.

If is possible I request an informal meeting with the new teacher as soon the classes ending, but if that is not possible, I know that most of the teachers are in the school one week before the school start and plan to meet the teacher and said "HI" could be another option.

Why not send a post card wishing her a good summer. Imagine her surprise when she return to school and get a card from a parent. I will do that soon.

This year Angel will have many other teachers, but I will make sure to know who going to be his homeroom teacher and start the communication as early as possible.

If you do not know call or visit the school and ask the Principal.

Learning how to comunicate with the child's teacher is the first step to keep our children safe at school.

Talk to you soon.

Are you a member of a parent support group? This can be a great help to you. It certainly helped me and in turn I have been able to help my child.

That is fabulous advice. Unfortunately I am not socially that good.

But it is fabulous advice for someone that isn't shy!

HI:
I also have a 9 yrs. old who is very shy. I believe that Parenting Involvement could be a great alternative to help your child socially and stop bulling.

I am a to be a very active parent. At the beggining of class, I asked the teacher how I can help her or asked her to allow me to do activities in his class. * This is not always easy, but most of the teacher needs some kind of help.

Because of my active participation, most of the students told him that I am a great Mom. They then want to be with him too becaue children are children and want to be part of the action.
I plan craft, cultural and social activites during the entire year.

During my time in his classroom, I observed the chidlren and try to pick one or two, that I believe can be a good "fit" for him and his interest.

I try to contact the parents and develop a relationship with them.

In addition, I plan for outside activities where his classmates can come.

Children love go to movies and not many have experiences on goin to children museums, Zoo or even to the library.

Remember you need to take control of the situation. Make partnership with the school and other parents will be the key to have a sucessfull plan.

I hope to hear from you soon...Good luck!

"What is Gate?"

Answered by a Prayer Ministry Pastor whom I agree with:
"That is a very, very good question. I perceive the gate base on God's word and my own perspective as an entry way which we can open or close both in the natural world and in the spiritual. This is a basic, simple answer without going into it to deep. The scripture just came to me, we have been given the keys to the Kingdom. In Mat. 16:18-19 we read where Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and to loose. We know that keys can lock or unlock gates. This would be a great topic to do a deep study in..."

I was thinking about you and your son on my way to pick up my kid. I forgot to mention, a real turning point for our son was joining Boy Scouts. Your son is a little young, but you might want to take him around to different BS troops to try and look for a match. I recommend you only join a church-based troop if you belong to that particular church. Ours for example is not based upon a particular church. Troops can vary so much, but you can talk to the adult Leader and find out how they run the troop. There are skills my son has learned in Scouting that he could not really learn anywhere else. It all depends of finding a troop where you and your son are comfortable. A good Scout leader tolerates no bullys, hazing, or cliques. The scout training teaches about bully's and offers techniques to deal with these and other issues. Additionally, since there are no girls, the guys can hang with their dads and learn without the whole girl/boy thing. The boys learn to accept each other and depend on each other. The focus on the program is responsibility. There is a focus on citizenship and helping others and our son is so much better with the kinds of kids that really annoyed him. Much more tolerant etc.. Our son has benefited so much. I think you need to be 11 or in 5th grade. But if you find a troop you like you can join the cubscout/weeblo troop that feeds into that group. Eagle Scouts in the troop offer great role models and often accompany the younger scouts on hikes and camp outs. They are really great guys. Scouting is not for everyone but when it works it is terrific. No where else do I see a program that stresses personal responsibility so consistantly and completely. We have kids who really struggle socially in our troop and they all find a place and have a chance to improve their skills within a supportive group. Schools don't really offer that type of practice, in my opinion and BS does it better.

Many parents recommend Rick Lavoie's book, "It is So Much Work to Be Your Friend" as a way to help children become more socially aware. www.amazon.com/Its-Much-Work-Your-Friend/dp/0743254651/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245250089&sr=1-1
Although it's geared to kids with LD's, it's got helpful advice for all children.

Great Advice!

That is ONE of many meanings.

I posted before and have been watching the thread. At your son's age, in my observation, children can be extremely self absorbed and unaware of others. When you said your son ignored people who said hello to him, it is due to a processing issue, or the fact that he has not been taught or does not realize that it is polite to acknowledge other people. To make a friend you need to be a friend. You might consider working on basic reciprocity skills and yes... the M word. Manners. If he acknowledges others, they will be more likely to respond in kind. Sometimes children just don't realize this and think it is someones job to be their friend but they really don't have to extend themselves. I read a book entitled "The Essential 55". I taught my son the first 5 items in this book and explained why they were important. Within a week adults were coming up to me and saying he was the most polite boy they have met in years. When kids have issues we tend to hover and pretty soon they think the world revolves around them. Make him understand he is a member of society, not a passive spectator. While if he has sensory issues etc. that is simplistic, in many cases this just represents a skills deficit in getting along and understanding what is expected in normal society.

It is also common with gifted and talented children who may have learning challenges that the work of being a social being gets delegated to their peers, teachers, parents, sibling. The earlier he learns that he has a responsibility to be resourceful and respectful of others the quicker he will learn to get along. You might get him in a more structure play environment so he can practice his skills outside the glaring eye of school. My son is in swimming and has made friends because all the kids there love swimming. They have a channel for extra energy and the coach is really on his game. Also, science camps are good because if it is demanding program, only kids with a very huge interest go to them. Summer is a good time for him to practice. Stay away from day camps that are more like babysitting for busy parents. The kids usually don't want to be there and are not as interested in the program. He needs a focused setting so he can shine. Good Luck

foenad, GATE = Gifted and Talented Education (that's the term that's used in California, anyway) but other states/school districts may offer similar programs for brighter students, under a different name.
Kids can be both gifted and have issues like ADHD. The term for that is "2e" or "twice exceptional," and I've listed many "2e" resources here: community.greatschools.net/groups/16042

That answer is one that will take you on a journey. Are you ready?

Has your child been tested? Many times our polluted environment, the foods we eat...cause symptoms of mental or emotional type problems. They are mere symptoms and when the root problem is found, they can be naturally treated in many cases and they will go away. In other cases it may be genetic issues that deal with our biological make up. Sometimes medical doctors are able to give the area needed a boost with medication. However, on my personal journey with myself, my now grown children and my nephew who is almost 12 years, I have found medication to be a bandaid until we can get to the root problem and treat it to bring healing to the body.

Many blessings sent to you and your family. I know how it feels to be searching for answers to help yourself and your children. God go with you.

What is GATE?

I was walking with him in the school and he doesn't notice when people say hello or goodbye to him. I know his hearing is fine. I had it checked and the school checked it.

I told him he is a very nice and I wouldn't assume someone doesn't like him. Sure someone is going to dislike anyone but everyone can't dislike a nice smart kid.

Helping our children discover that their test will become their testimony is very challenging but rewarding. It is not who is right or wrong that counts as much as what kind of attitude we carry through the test. Going through tests is what develops character. Looking at the light at the end of the tunnel rather than being stuck in the dark helps.

My Joshua was bullied also. He even paid people to be his friends...Anyway, I got him involved with helping others and raising funds for Life Flight... He now realizes that being different is okay. We have meetup sites and physical meetup groups, CHALLENGERS Parenting Support

After reading the responses so not to duplicate; I would first like to say listen to Joe Bruzzese. Work in the class room. See what is going on. If he is quiet in class and spaces, maybe have him checked for ADD. (do the no drug way) Check to see if your child is GATE. My child is both and knowing this has helped me to understand him and except him and help him. He has also taken Karate. This is an individual sport. Some are non contact and have pads so the children do not get hurt. They learn to protect themselves in case of danger. (being taken) Gives them confidence and rewards (with belts) I one rule of thumb in signing children up for extra activities is No more then 2 at a time. Also talk to the teacher about that home work. That is way to much !!! Our school has 30 min of work give. My 8 yr old takes longer yes. A friend of mine asked the teacher about how long the wk is suppose to take. The teacher said 1hr. She said ok I am timing him and I'll sign it if he dosen't complete it.

Good luck!

thanks for the dialogue. I was a professional singer for 28 years and know a LOT of kids like yours. Chances are that he will thrive in a "fringe" or individual situation. The reason I mentioned art, music, acting, etc. is because that actually REWARDS what other call wasting others time. My nephew is just like your son and we finally sent him the "The School of Rock" where he lives in Denver. It clicked with him and now, he is fully engaged with people and things. Forgive me if I overstep but you might worry less about him and work the problem ... if plan A doesn't fit, go to plan B. If you assume there is no such thing as a real failure then there won't be :-).

Good luck with things ... oh, ask him if he would like to be in the chorus at Oak Ridge Playhouse, Tennessee Valley Players ... maybe one of the kids in the Christmas Carol this winter ... maybe that would make him come out of his shell a bit.

Something for you to read is the ACTUAL stories about celebrity actors .... I think that you will notice a real link to how your son views the world ... his is in good company. P.S. Einstein was bullied in school and spent much of his time alone ...... now, he is one of our most respected persons and is a bobble head doll in Night at The Museum! Keep a smile, he sounds like a great kid.

We did have him in piano. He has over two hours of homework a night so he didn't practice so he stopped taking lessons.

He liked tennis and art. I watched him take the tennis lessons and I cringed. He is immature.
He doesn't notice how he wastes time playing around making the group wait for him.

I would just pick him up because I couldn't watch. I imagine he is doing the same at school. I really should get him into the tennis again because it is an individual sport which his personality would do good in.


We had him in group sports and he got yelled at for doing his own thing so he quit group sports too.

Church is a fabulous idea but my husband is not interested in going right now. That is really a family thing to do.

I already responded once and read on to find more of your info. Here is the scoop ... the odd ones in school reach the highest levels of society. The "cool" kids in school have at least ONE good parent who will suggest that someone show him how to break out ... normally it is girls but some of us with athletic credits did much of this too. In an area where church is so important, I KNOW that their is someone that can befriend him. Teach him about his quirks and ask to keep them to a minimum for awhile. Once you have friends ... no one cares how different you are ... I am proof!!! Seriously, someone will understand him and he in turn can return the favor later in life. Good lessons

get him in music somehow. The skills for both math/science and music are complimentary and will build a TON of self confidence. Go to the coach at school and ask for the biggest, nicest guy on the team to watch out for him. Can't tell you how many friends I did this with in school!

With the number of students in most classrooms today, bullying behavior often goes unseen and then when reported is nothing more than hearsay. Unfortunately, many bullying incidents don't draw attention until the victim shows signs of physical abuse. Requesting a conference with the teacher and your son may help to bring resolution. Hoping that all will return to normal would be wonderful. Taking action to bring the bullying to an end moves your hope into reality.

Joe Bruzzese

feonad, every school is different when it comes to "incident reporting." I wouldn't normally expect a principal to call for every situation. Many schools only document when there has been physical contact between students. I would take a look at your school's "parent handbook" and see if they mention how various disciplinary issues are handled.

He seems very happy this week. All I got out of him was Charlie kicked his lunch box. He admitted to kicking Alex's lunch box after Charlie kicked his lunch box.

He said he didn't push anyone and there was no pushing.

Alittle girl told the teacher that John was being bullied. So I asked him why she said that and I got no answer.

I told he I wasn't going to do anything but we should know what is going on so we can protect him.

It is like fort knox getting information out of him.

I think he is glad it is out in the open but I still don't know what is going on.

The teacher doesn't either. I think one parent reported him kicking a lunch box and someone reported a pushing incident.

I don't know what is going on.

Doesn't the principal call if he pushed someone and a parent reported it?

I suggest you get him in an activity he enjoys. Maybe he has few shared interests with the kids at school. Once he makes friends on the outside his attitude will be better and he has a better chance of success at school. Chess Club, Swimming, Sience Club at the local museum are all good ways for him to connect with like minded boys and girls.

How has your son been bullied? Do children single him out with verbal taunts or has the bullying become physical? I loved a few of the ideas shared below, including the recommendation to talk with your child's teacher in order to gain a full perspective, given that you are not present during the school day.

Beyond the bullying that is occuring at school, does your son have an opportunity to socialize with kids outside of the school day? Often kids who don't fit within a niche at school can find a group of friends who enjoy the same interest in an afterschool activity.

Joe Bruzzese

My son says he has never made a friend at school.

They way I think they are actting, I have no wish for him to be friends with any of them.

Sometimes no friends are better than damaging friends.

I think I will try to get him in more outside activities and maybe try another school.

I don't think he has the social skills to deal with this mob mentality of third grade. Isn't it great they feel so superior that they have to torture the kids who talks funny and repeats himself and is only interested in science and math.

I just found out there were reports of my son kicking lunch boxes and some pushing.

What does his teacher say about this? A teacher's responsibility is to keep an eye out for the child who has been socially isolated - she let it get too far if she's let it get this far. I often suggest and I would again - go in and observe. The kids notice you when you first come in but when you take a seat quietly in the back of the room, they forget about you and the normal life of the classroom picks up around you. See what you see.
You also need to see if your son is doing something that does put the other children off - I have a son who's so pressured in the way he interacts with others that it puts them off. Does your son get along well with children outside of school?
Whether you observe or not - talk to his teacher about your concerns. As a 'social isolate' - you can use that term - your son deserves a better year next year and he should have a teacher who knows how to keep an eye on the situation and better yet - knows how to help him build some friendships.
Some teachers are magic with all kids and some are better than others with this kind of child. I'd observe in all of next year's teachers rooms and figure out which one you think would be best for him and then request that teacher of the principal. Or if you want to do it the other way around, let the principal recommend a teacher from next year's teachers and then go and observe the teacher.
Helping your son build relationships on the outside of school can help too but someone in the school needs to be his advocate and to keep an eye out for him and his particular needs. As a teacher, I'd be upset to mortified if I'd let my class determine that anyone who befriends a child who needs a friend will lose all their friends. That's the opposite of what they should be learning in school.
When you talk with his teacher, ask her who his friends seem to be as it seems to you he has none. If she gives you names, you could work to build on those relationships with after school and weekend 'playdates'. If she has no names to give you, you know you're right and then make sure the school does the right thing by your son for next year.

Sorry to hear he is going through this. Check out "Raisining A Thinking Child" by Dr. Myrna Shure (was on Oprah) "...The program will also help shy children to become more assertive and impulsive children to cope with frustration when things don't go their way. And of vital importance: The skills that your children learn through this program can prevent and reduce early behaviors that predict later problems such as violence, substance abuse, and depression.."
www.thinkingpreteen.com/thinkingchild.htm

I'm sorry to hear of your son's situation. My son was also a target of bullying and didn't have many friends when he was in elementary school. Have you spoken to the teacher and principal about the bullying? Closer adult supervision should be in place to ensure bullying is not occurring in classes, but I understand that your son shutting down is a separate issue. Have you mentioned your concern to your son's doctor? If your son is a perfectionist, it could add to his anxiety. I think talking to a professional, and possibly joining a social skills group for the summer, might help. My son participated in one when he was around age 10. It also helped us to involve our son in activities outside of school. Taekwondo was recommended (my son is also a math/science type, and not very athletic) and he really seemed to develop more self-confidence and friends through it.
You might also want to join Greatschools Bully Prevention Group at community.greatschools.net/groups/11560

more information. His best friend last year said to me in front of him. He is so werid that no one wants to be his friend.

He is doing good at school getting 100 percent. My husband went on a school trip and my son was sitting by himself and not talking to anyone or interacting with anyone. Like someone who was just shut down due to mistreatment.