Thanks for the suggestion. I've talked to a good friend who has already tried to get visitation with her granddaughter...She spent a great deal of money on legal representation only to be told that it is the parent's responsibilty to decide who sees the children. In our case, our daughter has been through so much with this guy (physically, mentally, verbally) that she just left the children behind to get away from him. She couldn't arrange visitation because he is impossible to deal with. He has never followed the court ordered visitation structure. He has such control issues that he imposes himself into every situation. Now that he has all of the control, he's proven once again how poor his parenting and decision-making abilities are. Our 17 year old grandson has a genetic disability and at present, our ex son-in-law is trying to get SS disability for him. He never cared about this when my daughter and I were meeting with medical specialists or working with the schools on special ed and IEP's. Now that he's declared bankruptcy (with the help of his mom who falsified his income documentation for the federal government), is on welfare (which provides him with the only health benefits his family has ever had), and is eligible for child support payments from my unemployed daughter (who he wouldn't allow out of his sight for 17 years so she chould get a job), AND applying for disability payments (which he will pocket), his life is exactly as he always planned. And the courts approve all of this. No one has even bothered to offer the children some counseling and he won't initiate it because he has too much to hide. I know that someday the children will know and understand all of this, but their childhood is slipping away and their law-abiding family members aren't even allowed to talk to them. Someone should be advocating for the children (AND the grandparents), but no on even bothers to check out the situation. I'm sorry that my frustration is showing, but these kids mean so much to my husband and me. (And to their mother, but they can't even talk to her and now the courts have made it permanent!)