It's been posted.

Sonora, would you consider copy/pasting your suggestions as a new discussion, under the Learning and Attention Difficulties Group at community.greatschools.net/groups/11554, so more parents of special education students could see it?

I'm so happy you asked for a suggestion on rating special ed programs. Here's my version of a questionnaire, to be filed with the district and posted on its' website for parents to access. And let me emphasize that the purpose of the questionnaire is to allow parents to rate their experiences and make them publicly accessible to other parents with children in special ed programs. As far as the rating scale, it could take its' cue from similar types of questionnaires that schools put out at year's end, or better yet, standardized testing (since public ed is SO in love with that.....) by a simple a) below the standards b) meets the standards c)exceeds the standards. Standards as in legal requirements set forth by the State and Federal government. I think to start there are 3 main areas (I encourage others on here to post additions at will), for evaluation by parents:
1. Proper, consistent and thorough implementation of IEP's and 504 plans.
2. Consistent communication between Special Ed (teacher, coordinator, specialist etc) and parents, with ongoing discussion of clearly defined goals and benchmarks relating to #1.
3. Quality of support and responsiveness to parents as relates to inquiries, suggestions and yes indeedy....constructive criticism.

I think those 3 areas are a good place to start, and whether your child fits one "type" or another has no bearing on how well the special ed services carry out their responsibilities since they are supposed to be educated and knowledgeable about all "types", and capable of addressing the needs of children who fall under the special ed umbrella. As Mike Myers said, "Discuss amongst yourselves".

Sonora, I had been reading this discussion that contains many replies from different people: community.greatschools.net/q-and-a/259536/Have-teachers-become-the-convenient-scapegoats-for-parents-who-are-simply-irresponsible? I apologize for confusing you and suomi. I know you are both teachers and parents, who DO have kid's best interests at heart, as do I.
If you have suggestions for a good way to rate special ed programs at different schools, please let us know.

China Doll,

Try finding some parent groups to contact in the area of the schools you're interested in (don't know if you are living in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley, but either way, there may be some parent groups, I know that the gifted parent groups in the East Valley often meet at the public libraries).

Healthy 11,

I have no idea what your are referring to with your statement,"I've read many of your past postings, and it sounds like you can't even get a lot of your student's parents to show up at school for teacher conferences, and the kids don't have good supervision or guidance at home, either."
I am a college professor and I don't post about my students on here, could you please show me a post where I talk about teacher conferences? I don't have teacher conferences with my students. You have me confused with someone else since I do not teach in K-12 public school. I also have a son with ADHD and has attended public school in Arizona. Explorer, Desert Shadows and Sunrise are in the Paradise Valley School District, which are the schools the original post was inquiring about. The original post asks if anyone has experience with the special ed programs at these schools, which I guess is a moot point by your standards because none of us can possibly make an informed response. As for your statement that parents don't even get involved that is just not true. It's a blanket statement I've heard one time too many. I'm going to leave it that and just ask that in the future you do not post erroneous statements about me, or at least provide the posts that you are referring to.

Sonora, as the parent of a child who has ADHD, as well as SLD's in reading and writing (dyslexia and dysgraphia) I agree that many children's needs aren't being adequately met by our current school systems. But before you can come up with ratings, and address deficiencies, you need good information, and I'm seeing few parents who bother to take time to get involved, and even understand their own children's issues. How can they provide accurate data?

I've read many of your past postings, and it sounds like you can't even get a lot of your student's parents to show up at school for teacher conferences, and the kids don't have good supervision or guidance at home, either. When parents don't care and make time for their children, schools are facing a monumental task; they can't do it alone. Parents like myself, who have been actively involved in our child's education for years, still find it hard to get school systems to provide appropriate instruction and FAPE.

We've strayed off from the original poster's question, so I'll end by just saying that I hope Chinadollmom found some way to get helpful information about the special ed programs at the middle schools she was considering. If she did, maybe she can share those ways with us.

Sorry Healthy 11, but I respectively disagree. Nothing is impossible in this great nation. Where there is a will, there is a way. It is time to live up to our greatness instead of settling for less, and our children suffering because of it.

I agree, but at least the numeric ratings of public schools on Greatschools come from a larger "pool" of data, that being how individual school's students perform on statewide testing. Rating the quality of special ed programs is virtually impossible.

I think your point can be applied to the reviews on this website which vary widely even within one school. I don't believe parents make decisions based on one review. Many bad reviews is cause for concern. Give me access to all of the reviews and I'll make up my own
mind.

sonora, I was explaining why it would be hard to rate special ed programs at any given school, not that you can't identify needs of individual children.

Let's say you have three kids with a diagnosis of ADHD, who have IEPs, and attend the same school.

Let's say Student Sharie has ADHD-inattentive, which is typically characterized by lack of focus but not by disruptive, hyperactive classroom behavior. She takes medication and has Teacher Y, who is very understanding and encouraging, and Sharie ends up having a positive year. Sharie's parents would rate the special ed program at that school very highly.

Another kid, Student Sammie, also has ADHD-inattentive, but he has Teacher Z. Teacher Z is a "no-nonsense" instructor who doesn't understand why Sammie struggles to get work completed, but basically Teacher Z follows the IEP and give Sammie extra time for tests, etc. and Sammie "gets through the year." Sammie's parents would rate it so-so.

Student Steve has ADHD-combined type, and he also has Teacher Z, who is continually calling his parents to complain about his inability to sit still, his disrupting the class with impulsive behavior and silly antics, etc. Steve's parents would rate the special ed program at the same school poorly.

So which is it? How do you accurately rate a special ed program at a school? It can vary dramatically depending on the type of special ed needs a student has, who is teaching their class, etc. I would hate to see a parent "avoid" sending their child to a particular school based on one parent's rating of one teacher, when another student at the same school with a different diagnosis or a different teacher might have a completely opposite experience. You need a large "sample size" to get meaningful data, and a couple of people rating special ed programs at a given school isn't likely to yield very accurate results.

Healthy 11,

I am perplexed by your comment, "The individual teacher can make a huge difference, but it would be hard to categorize the child's type of ADHD (inattentive, hyperactive, or combined?) and how it's treated (with meds or not?) and whether there are other co-existing conditions, like LDs, that might also interfere...." A psychologist can definitely address which type of ADHD a child has and whether there are co-existing conditions. Both Scottsdale and Paradise Valley School districts have "gifted specialists" who are well versed in twice exceptional students...in fact it seems like they are always writing books, speaking at conferences, and advocating for just these types of children, so why is this such a mystery to address the issues that accompany these different learning styles and capabilities in any given school? If I can read a litany of books on these subjects, why can't the teachers keep up to date with it? Whether the kids are on meds or not is frankly a tired argument as well since there are educators who deal with both successfully ( and have also written books and spoken in public about their successes). I see no reason why parents should not have access to information about special ed programs and why they should not be ranked just like test scores, athletics and all the other myriad things that are ranked in the schools (including our children). I really am confused by your comment. And perhaps a bit irritated because it seems to continue the tired argument that the schools just can't help everyone (i.e. kids who need a different teaching environment, mode or approach). The Supreme Court just ruled in favor of parents who take their kids out of public schools that aren't living up to FAPE, enroll them in private schools and then have the district pay the tuition. I think if schools districts whine and complain (an accusation they love to throw at parents....) about the cost of this, they'd better get on the stick and start addressing all of the students, no matter what their need or disability. That's what FAPE is about afterall, free and appropriate public education.

I 'heard' Explorer has a Great program. A friend of mine has her 13 year old there.He has come along way..I have seen a HUGE change. Good luck.

Yes, it appears that your posting shows up both in a local and "general" message board...
I have to be honest, I think it would be very hard to rate special ed programs, because even two kids with the same diagnosis, like ADHD, can have vastly different experiences in a school. The individual teacher can make a huge difference, but it would be hard to categorize the child's type of ADHD (inattentive, hyperactive, or combined?) and how it's treated (with meds or not?) and whether there are other co-existing conditions, like LDs, that might also interfere....
If I were you, I'd consider joining a local CHADD support group (www.chadd.org) and try to network with other local parents, who might be best able to give you feedback on the area schools and resources.

I thought I posted this to the local Phoenix, AZ sub-group... Does it show up in a larger group also?

I have also posted a similar question in the Learning and ADD group (minus the local school questions). :)

We have visited the schools for a general tour, but it looks like we may have to ask for a meeting with the special ed staff. I sure wish there was a school rating for special ed services, in addition to the other ratings. It appears our state is starting to keep track -- they recently sent me a satisfaction questionaire on our school's special ed program. I doubt the information is publically available, though.

Unfortunately, Greatschools is a nationwide forum, and there aren't a lot of people from any one city, much less parents of kids from a particular school, who have children of a similar age with the same educational issues.
My son also has ADHD, and I've found that individual teachers, more than a particular school have the biggest impact on his success...Unfortunately, teachers also change from year to year. You might try to visit each school, and see what they tell you as far as their special ed programs.
For general info, I'd also like to invite you to join Greatschools Learning and Attention Difficulties Parent Support Group at community.greatschools.net/groups/11554