These policies are due to the fact that some children will use bathroom breaks as an excuse to goof off. So because of the possibility that a couple of kids in class might abuse this RIGHT (the need) to use the restroom, the teacher is going to punish any child that asks to go. Anyone of any age (including adults) with, or with out a medical condition will from time to time need to use the restroom at an inconvenient time. My 9 year old was forced to sit in class and not allowed to leave for the rest room. She ended up wetting herself and was humiliated. there is no excuse for keeping a child from using the restroom. You would not tell an adult they cant go to the restroom if they needed to.

It is unhealthy and cruel to force young children to do without bathroom breaks...
I am a retired teacher...Almost 50 years ago,as a young & inexperienced teacher, I was encouraged by administration to keep students from using bathroom during class...A young girl in my 3rd grade asked to use the bathroom. (This was in my 1st class during the 1st week of teaching)..

I told her to wait until recess...However, she was unable to...she was standing next to me and proceeded to wet all over my shoes! I felt so sorry for her and also for my shoes! Never, never, did I refuse to let a child use the bathroom after that!!

Sometimes, if a child was found to be abusing the break ...or if there was some security problem in the school, then I made different plans .

After 40 years of teaching, I found that most students did not abuse the bathroom breaks.
I now have a grandchild who has a congenital kidney problem...we are dealing with his school because they restrict breaks...It is humiliating to him..If they allow him to go more than the other children, it will make him stand out...and if he can't go, he will have health problems...a nonsensical situation that the school has created!

There is no excuse to ask a young child in elementary school to wait for more than thirty minutes at a time. Their bodies are not developed, and they do not have many breaks.
Talk to the school board if your child is still losing recess and tell her you understand if she doesnt make it to the bathroom because better she wets herself than to have bad bladder infections or worse because of insensitive teachers.
Make sure the principal knows how the teacher is interpreting the new policies because that could be the problem too.
And make sure your child doesnt abuse the bathroom--trying to get out of a class she doesnt like, for example.
Cheers.
Shane

These modern bathroom policies are inappropriate. That said, you did what the teacher asked - call the teacher and ask why - since you provided her with a note - that your daughter is still being held out of recess? Be very pleasant, and pretend to be very perplexed. Ask "Did I misunderstand you, Ms. Jones? I thought that with a doctor's note you said a child could be excused from the policy."

Do you know for certain that the teacher got the doctor's note?

All that said, if I were a parent in one of these schools with harmful policies such as this - I'd raise Cain about it. Young children should be allowed to go to the bathroom as they said they need to - this policy causes children to spend the day fearfully concerned and focused on holding their bladders rather than focused on learning.

odachimaster wrote on December 19, 2008
“Since these last few comments I checked out how often my son who is home from college goes to the bathroom he goes every 38 mins. on the average of a 7.5 hour day I let him know he gets no recess time at all. He did not think that was funny until he read these post.

Yes kids use it as a excuse but know do not use it against them. How would you feel if you said NO to a kid and she/he had and accident in their undergarments? I know if I was the parent and my child told me they asked to go but was told NO there would be - - - - to pay”


If your adult son is using the bathroom every 38 minutes you should really have him see a doctor. That is not at all normal (unless he was pounding beers at the time... you did say college kid) for an adult.

jackieth wrote on December 15, 2008
“A child is in school from 8:00 am - 3:00 pm with a ride to and from school. So let's say the ride to school is 30 min. to and from school. That is a total of 8 hours. So if they are to be allowed to go every 2 hours, then they should be able to go to the bathroom 4 times during the day. That sounds reasonable to me.

I don't, however, think that children are allowed to use the restroom 4 times a school day. Thus, the problem.”


Once when they arrive at 8:00 (not during class), once at 10:00, once during lunch (not during class), once around 2:00.

That’s only twice during class. Now if your child decides to go at 8:30, 10:30, 1:30, 2:30 that’s four times also, but all during class, that’s a time management problem.

my child is in the 2nd grade also. I have heard of no problems in her class of excess bathroom breaks but I do know that when my child is stressed, whether it be at school or at home... if she passes a restroom she has to go and DOES go each and every time. I know this because I have followed her in there to see for myself if she is playing in the water or what. She has an easily stimulated bladder. Several months ago she was on an outing with the babysitters church while I was at work. The trip was to a zoo that was 1 3/4 hrs. away. there is a rest area 1/2 way. On the way home from a long day the kids were not drinking. Most, like my child were sleeping.. she was awaken to see if she had to use the bathroom.. at the time she didn't't have to go. When she was told to start waking up because they were 45 min. from home, with all the stirring around that they made them do getting there gift bags, etc. ready for the return trip home she needed to go. The sitter is more than aware that we have stress problems, with all of the fussing from 5 adults ..MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR JACKETS!!! MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR GIFT BAGS!!! MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR LUNCH BOXES... YOU BETTER NOT FORGET ANYTHING... she was stressed. They refused to let her stop ... I do somewhat understand. What bothers me is that when the bus pulled up at the church with myself and my husband and all the other parents waiting for these 24 kids, everyone got off the bus including the adults and my 7 yr. old comes inching her way down the steps doubling over crying. I went to her and had to physically help her down the bottom step. When I tried to pick her up to see what was wrong she screamed, "it hurts". Her bladder was so full she was in pain. She lost control of her bladder before she made it to the bathroom. This upset her also. Her pain in her stomach did not subside for over an hour. The humiliation that she felt has stayed with her. She does not want to go on any trip that last over 30 min. She asks constantly if there is a bathroom wherever we go. This has damaged her unduly. I hope this helps some of you who can't decide.
I do understand not allowing children to over abuse the system but would never allow a child to go through the humiliation and hurt that my child has seen.

I would speak with the teacher again and let her know that you are aware that your child is still missing recess and discuss your concerns with her again. If that does not work then I would talk to the assistant principal with a copy of your doctor's excuse and hopefully that will help the situation.

Since these last few comments I checked out how often my son who is home from college goes to the bathroom he goes every 38 mins. on the average of a 7.5 hour day I let him know he gets no recess time at all. He did not think that was funny until he read these post.

Yes kids use it as a excuse but know do not use it against them. How would you feel if you said NO to a kid and she/he had and accident in their undergarments? I know if I was the parent and my child told me they asked to go but was told NO there would be - - - - to pay

Gracesmom, you are making the assumption that I don't spend time at my child's school. I have over 200 volunteer hours logged in at my child's school this year. I know the bathroom schedule at my child's school very well. My child is in middle school, and they don't have a scheduled time at all to go to the bathroom. They just have to fit in a bathroom break in the 3 minutes for locker change or wait until the 20 min. they have for lunch. But, I wasn't commenting on my child's school or here to defend my volunteer hours; I was commenting on the original poster's question and MiserDD's post.

"I don't, however, think that children are allowed to use the restroom 4 times a school day. Thus, the problem."

They go every 1.5 - 2 hrs at my child's school and every other school where I have worked. Perhaps it would be prudent for those who have a concern about this to spend the day at school to see how often children have opportunity to go to the bathroom rather than assuming anything.

MiserDD wrote: "I talked to a pediatrician and the pediatrician said that once every two hours is more than enough provided the child is not drinking excessive amounts of fluid at the time (which they aren’t while in class) and has not been diagnosed with a bladder infection."

A child is in school from 8:00 am - 3:00 pm with a ride to and from school. So let's say the ride to school is 30 min. to and from school. That is a total of 8 hours. So if they are to be allowed to go every 2 hours, then they should be able to go to the bathroom 4 times during the day. That sounds reasonable to me.

I don't, however, think that children are allowed to use the restroom 4 times a school day. Thus, the problem.

So if you’re on a long trip, do you stop every five minutes because your daughter says she has to use the bathroom or do you create “a conducive environment for bacterial growth”?

These policies are simple and needed, children like to play and going to the bathroom gets them out of a restrictive environment (the classroom).

If little Jenny wants to use the bathroom 20 times a day do you allow all 20 of the students to do the same? How disruptive can 400 bathroom trips be to the class?

I’m no nurse practitioner, but I am a father with a child who has never passed a bathroom he didn’t “have to use or he would explode”. I talked to a pediatrician and the pediatrician said that once every two hours is more than enough provided the child is not drinking excessive amounts of fluid at the time (which they aren’t while in class) and has not been diagnosed with a bladder infection.

Hi, I am a nurse practitioner and it is common knowledge, even in the lay community, holding urine in the bladder for prolonged periods of time, creates a conducive environment for bacterial growth. Thus, UTI; little girls are very prone to these type of infections. I would suggest talking to your daughter's school nurse, review your child's situation, in addition to the aforementioned health concerns. He or she may be able to advocate on your child's behalf. Another bit of information you may want to share, remind, or both, we are teaching the public, and children are considered part of the public, the focus tends to be on actions that can be taken in prevention of disease and illness states. I would not be surprised if this paradigm of thought is not being taught in your child's health studies at school. So, when your child needs to use the restroom, she should be allowed to do so, for multiple reasons, especially for her physical well-being and health. Best Wishes.

SoCal:
I hope you didn't take my questions as being sarcastic, as I didn't intend them to be. I've never had the opportunity or need to ask any of my children's teachers about restroom use for teachers.

To have children hold their urine for long periods of time is sometimes a time bomb waiting to happen. My daughter was never allowed to use the bathroom during class and ended up with bladder and urinary tract infection. She had gotten extremely sick with a high fever, it was terrible, she almost ended up in the hospital.

At this point in the school year, teachers will know which students are abusing the "have to go" card. When a student who seldom has to go during class time, they should be allowed to without punishment. Here, teachers leave their class unattended all the time to use the bathroom but yet, punish the students if they have to use it.

It is a double-standard and wrong. Infections of this nature by holding urine is nothing to take lightly.

I'm torn on this issue, children should be able to use the restroom when they have the urge but two or three times? I would find it hard to believe they would really need to "go" that often. The policy at my son's school is this: They have ONE pass that they can use when they want. After this pass is used that's it, they cannot go until recess, lunchtime etc. So my son has learned to use his pass only when he really needs it and not when he can be a big boy and hold it a little longer.

MSMom: Teachers don't leave the classroom to use the bathroom -- they use their recess and lunch breaks to attend their own personal needs.

Before I teach, I ensure that I am completely ready to give 100% of my attention to meeting the needs of my students, whether they are children (ballet students) or adults (professional development classes). From my experience, this is the norm.

mom4school brought up an interesting point: The teachers' need for using the bathroom during class time. This really brings a different perspective on this topic!

It would be difficult for a teacher to leave a classroom full of students to use the restroom. How do teachers handle this situation? Do you have a neighboring teacher "watch" your classroom while you're gone?

I wanted to chime in on this topic from a teacher's perspective. While no one wants to see a child have an accident, asking for a bathroom break is commonly used as a ploy to get out of the classroom. I have seen students in a class where the teacher had few classroom management skills, and kids would be asking to go three times in a hour on a regular basis. Obviously, this is not a good thing for that child or for others in the classroom as it is very disruptive.

One of the ways I manage this issue is making it part of the classroom reward system. Students have an opportunity to earn "kids cash," up to $10 per day if they are on task and behaving well throughout the day. They have opportunities to earn extra cash by helping out in an above and beyond manner, and will lose cash by talking, not doing their work, bothering other students, etc. They have opportunities to use the bathroom and get drinks as we transition in and out of recess/lunch, which means the longest they have to go without a break is 1 hour and 20 minutes. If they choose to go to the bathroom during class time, it costs them $1. It also costs them $1 to get a drink. I don't see this as a penalty, as it comes down to them making a choice, and it has greatly diminished the number of trips made during class time to almost none. While I understand parents thinking that two to five minutes out of the class is not a big deal, it can become a real problem for students as the class moves on in the lesson, and the teacher cannot stop to reteach as each child returns from the restroom.

That being said, when a child has had a medical issue that involves bathroom use and the parent has let me know, they are allowed to leave quietly when they need to without paying.

I would like to add that the same issue is true for teachers. We can only leave our classroom during recess times, which means we have to plan our bathroom trips accordingly. As someone with a small bladder who drinks a lot of fluids, this is sometimes a challenge :-). But it is also a part of life, as there are many situations where a bathroom is not readily available or you are in a position where you can't leave. Just as I teach my own children to go to the bathroom before we leave the house, etc., I am trying to teach my students to plan ahead.

Jackieth,
I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself. Now I have a much better understanding of where you're coming from.

I've heard many teachers complain that they spend their day managing the classroom as opposed to teaching. I wonder if this sentiment is part of what's happening in this situation.
Obviously there's a problem throughout the school with students taking advantage of bathroom time- otherwise the school wouldn't have implemented this policy. That doesn't make it the best policy either.

Happy Thanksgiving!

"Let's all try to avoid such generalizations as they tend to end up in hurt feelings and alienation. The focus of these boards is to come up with solutions to the real problems our education system faces and to be supportive of each other as we do so."

TJLOVE,
I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I do not think I made a generalization about teachers. Many teachers (not all) do think that ALL children should act in the SAME way, and if a child has a need outside of the scheduled time, then they don't know how to deal with it. Some children will need to go to the bathroom outside of the normal times that the teacher has scheduled. These are 7 year children, not robots. They may need to go to the bathroom outside of the perimeters of what is planned. That's just life when you deal with children. So here is the point that I was trying to make: when you see children as little human beings, with needs a lot like your own, things like an extra bathroom break won't be a big deal, as you could see yourself in the same situation and would like the same consideration.

Some teachers have addressed the bathroom issues by incorporating group bathroom breaks throughout the day. For instance, mid-morning, after closing out 90 minutes of instruction - the class as a group is taken to the lavatories and given an opportunity to go to the water fountain. This eliminates a lot of the need for kids to be constantly excused to leave the classroom.
Using fifteen minutes wisely can add hours to quality instructional time. Also, the children are being supervised.

With a doctor's note, i think your daughter should be permitted to use the bathroom as she wishes.
Children are very funny people and they want to play and have fun all the time, but they have academic too!

I caught my daughter with a group of girls in the bathroom chatting early in the morning. It was Monday morning and parents of girls know what I am talking about. She confessed chatting about her favorite TV show. Some students use bathroom time for many things and their teachers are master of this trick too.

Now, my children use the bathroom the last thing before leaving the house and everyone wins.

I want to address: "children as real people" in a lot of areas in this country children are treated as second class citizens as well as women.
You may have seen this first hand as most of us go to the grocery store or drug store with and without our children. I witnessed a little boy maybe 8 years old had an item saw he had his money out I looked around and saw the Mother a couple of check stands away watching she was teaching her son how to buy something well a man came behind the little boy and the cashier was finished and then helped the man and skipped the boy I could see some heat coming out of that Mothers collar I ran those stores it just happened to be a older cashier and that was the way it was for her.That was in CA some 25 years ago. it is very strong in NC today.
My Grandmother was the same way if you were a boy you could do no wrong but a girl you might as well be non-existent

I would be in favor that if you are a teacher you are there to make a difference and if you have been a teacher for a number of years you have seen plenty of parenting styles some great some terrible but I believe no teacher takes a child for granted.

I think you miss understood - there is not a medical condition. She does not agree with the rule, and sought medical advice, and the doctor concurred that the child should not hold their urine for a long period of time. However,the question remains - how many breaks is the child given? I think before any of us can form an opinion we need to know more information.

I am not sure how often the children are given bathroom breaks that is one avenue to investigate that would help resolve this issue for you. I can understand both side honestly because there are children who say that they have to go to the bathroom and they just want to run the halls. In Georgia, children are not suppose to be in the hallways without an adult. Not to mention the possibility of disrupting the classroom during instruction.

During a 6.5 hour day, three times should be enough. They are not drinking more than 10 oz of liquid in a day. A carton of milk can't be more than 4-6 oz plus a few sips of water during the day. I really think three times is enough.

I also believe that an interruption once in a while should be okay with the instructor. I think that it is possible to find a middle ground with this issue.

You may want to find out the level of fluids she is taking in during the school day, or if she uses the bathroom excessively at home.

I volunteer a lot at my children's school and I see the games they play when their parents aren't around. The kids within my their school for the most part are very good students and people, but they will take advantage if given the chance.

This is a pretty strong statement, "Just another way of teachers not seeing their students as "real people with real needs."

My mother was a teacher for over twenty years before she passed away and she absolutely saw her students as real people with real needs. For her, teaching was her passion.

That doesn't mean all teachers are as passionate about their profession as my mother. But not all teachers are the kind of people who don't see children as real people either.

Let's all try to avoid such generalizations as they tend to end up in hurt feelings and alienation. The focus of these boards is to come up with solutions to the real problems our education system faces and to be supportive of each other as we do so.

Children that age should be allowed to go to the restroom when needed. Our children are in school for 7 hours everyday (and this doesn't account for bus rides, walking home, etc), so yes, they are going to need to go to the bathroom several times during a 7-8 hour day. Just another way of teachers not seeing their students as "real people with real needs". What if the principal told the teachers they would lose their lunch break if they went to the bathroom during the day. There would be heck to pay, I'm sure!

imthemama:

You have complied with the school's requirements by getting a note from your daughter's doctor. I would certainly bring it up with the teacher and the principal that you have complied with school policy, and your daughter should not be missing recess or lunch time because she had to use the bathroom.

At this point, the teacher should have a good idea of who's abusing the bathroom breaks during class time. However, you've got the situation where the kids "cry wolf," and then have accidents when they really need to use the bathroom.

I'm not a fan of having young kids "hold it" until the next recess or lunch break. I understand the domino effect and time lost for instruction (not to mention discipline time during class).

Maybe the school should adopt a policy that the younger kids can take a break every hour and a half to use the bathroom. Instead of having two go at a time, have a larger group go to the bathroom. And certainly, if there are volunteer parents in the classroom, they can go with the group to the bathroom. Also, designate a boy and girl who have shown responsibility to lead the group during bathroom breaks.

If there is a medical condition and the doctor wrote a note, the teacher can't really stop a child! At our school, children can just go without disturbing the class. I guess the teacher keeps an eye on the number of times a child goes! I still don';t think that going to the bathrooom should be tied with recess unless the teacher believes a child is going out of boredom!

Thank you, SoCalGal. Excellent points.

By the way, the children (at least in our school) get bathroom breaks very regularly. They go less than 1.5 hrs before they have an opportunity to go to the bathroom. How often do the kids you know go to the bathroom on the weekend or at home? I'm pretty sure, unless they're sick or there's a medical condition it's not any more than about every 1.5 hour.

I'm a parent volunteer and I see both sides of this issue as well.

Sometimes kids suddenly have to go and there's no stopping them. My daughter's teacher has a policy where they can go whenever necessary, but when you see the same two kids (because they have to take a friend) grab the pass and go running out of the classroom virtually every day, it is disruptive. And suddenly as soon as those two come back, another two want the pass and the freedom it promises. At a certain point, it does become disruptive, and the teacher will give them the skunk eye.

My problem is my daughter is the exact opposite. She will hold it all day until she comes home, and yet she will sometimes be asked to go with another girl because she can be depended on to return promptly.

Another suggestion is find out if the class has set restroom policies (right before recess or right after lunch). My daughter is in second grade, and the kids still line up and hit the bathroom and the drinking fountain as a class together at least a couple of times a day.

Trust me from personal experience. I for some reason had to go to the bathroom right when most of my classes started and would not be allowed to go. I would have accidents since I walked home and it was 30 minute walk and was not allowed to use the bathroom. No one should be telling someone especially a child when they can use the bathroom. Some kids may have problems or just smaller bladders.

I have to agree with SoCalGal and Gracesmom. We were all school children once upon a time and I remember using the bathroom as an excuse to get out of having to read out loud or other school work and also to socialize.

I agree that seven is a young age to be expected to hold it in- but it's my experience that kids will put off going to the bathroom so that they can play longer. If they can hold it during recess, they can hold it during class time. Maybe this will encourage students to use the restroom before class starts or during recess or lunch or any other time designated for using the restroom that won't disrupt the entire class.

For imthemama: If you have a doctor's note on file and you're child is still losing recess time, definitely address it with the teacher again. There could be another reason as to why this is happening.

Hey folks, chill out. Gracesmom brings up a very important point: it is very disruptive to the entire class when children start heading off to the bathroom. And the first one is like a domino -- the same thing happens regularly in the Saturday morning ballet class that I teach. One child comes off the barre in the middle of a set of plies or battement tendus and 2 to 3 are right behind her. And ultimately 5 to 10 minutes is lost out of an hour class reining everyone back in.

And as for teaching children to handle this, well that's what the policy about waiting is all about. School is for learning more than just academic work and one of those things is how to behave in groups and ultimately, in the workplace.

Children should be allowed to go to the bathroom whenever they need to and should NEVER be penalized in any way. Holding the bladder can cause many serious urinary problems. Children's bodies should not be controlled by adults who have power over them. They should be respected and should be taught to respect their bodies functions and needs. I don't care how disruptive it is to teaching. Children should be taught to quietly leave, with their bathroom buddie and quietly return to their seats. Teachers cannot and should not determine if a child really NEEDS to go or not.

by forcing a child to decide whether to go to the bathroom or risk being penalized at recess. Yes I know kids will use it to get out of homework but if my child wets hers/his pants(clothing) there will be some heck to pay. and they will hear about it all the way up the food chain

You might want to be sure that recess isn't being lost due to some other reason. Once you determine that recess is lost due to the bathroom issue, you should clearly state to the teacher that the doctor's excuse she has on file is for medical reasons and that you do not expect your daughter to be penalized for going to the bathroom. If a face to face doesn't solve the problem, definitely escalate to the principal. Hopefully you won't have to go further, but don't hesitate to do so, if necessary.

Regarding the policy, in general, let's put this in perspective. Do you keep your child home every single time he or she says, "I don't feel like going to school because I feel sick." Probably not, you check for fever, consider the behavior (running around playing or sitting listlessly) and make your judgment based on what you KNOW about your child. It's a judgment call...and it isn't always right. (If you're always right, kudos to you!) Most kids try to play you...parent or teacher, when they want to avoid something (even good kids!)

I've recently started substituting. It's like walking a tightrope trying to determine who is legit and who isn't. I would never want a child to wet themselves and consequently have to face the ridicule of their peers. I would also be really upset if my child truly had to go the bathroom and the teacher didn't let them. It's also disruptive to the class when there's a lot of going in and out of class and the first child going to the bathroom during class time is like knocking down the first domino. As a sub (or a teacher with a new class) you just don't yet know the dynamics of the class. I let my kids go. They just can't go in pairs!

Effective teaching of our children is a concerted effort. So before we start slamming policy, perhaps a look at "why" would be in order. Also, I can't say it enough, volunteer at school...all day...not just for an hour or two and see what it's really like trying to keep order enough to teach. It's a real eye opener.

This is often done in the belief that children use trips to the bathroom to avoid classwork -- I'm not saying I agree, I'm only saying that that from what I've seen, this is a common practice.

If you've submitted a note already, meet with the teacher once more to discuss this issue. If, after your friendly reminder, the situation continues, meet with the principal and the teacher. That often takes care of the problem.

Just be aware that you will probably need to address this issue with teachers throughout your child's school career -- I do since my daughter has a congenital connective tissue disorder that causes this to be a concern. Each year, she receives a permanent bathroom pass that she may use at any time. Now that she's in middle school, that pass is a pass to excuse herself from class at anytime so that she may go to the health office, bathroom, or counseling office - as needed.

what a stupid and most of all unhealthy policy I would go to a school board meeting and address the the board on this issue with doctors notes on the possible damage this policy is inflicting upon these children and you are there to disclose this information not just for the children's sake but the possible lawsuits that may come from this policy.

i would have your child's doctor to contact the school,since the teacher isn't listening to the letter.maybe if he calls the principal and tells him personally on the phone then maybe something can be done.and if this doesn't help contact the superintendent and maybe he can do something,this is a crazy policy,should be able to go to the bathroom when you need to.i hope this policy will change,its not good to hold your bladder,its bad on older people but worse on kids.hope this was helpful?