Did your son ever attend preschool, or will this be his first experience being away from you, and interacting with a group of other children? Does he act the same way with other adults as he does with you? This doesn't sound like behavior that just started, so have you ever mentioned your concerns to your pediatrician? If not, that's the FIRST person to ask. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it sounds like he could be dealing with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) which often accompanies ADHD. My own son has ADHD and he had a difficult time in kindergarten and early elementary school. There are things that can help, including behavior management techniques and medication, but first you have to find out why he's acting the way he is. You might be interested in joining a couple of Greatschools Groups, including Kindergarten Parents community.greatschools.net/groups/11535 and the Learning and Attention Difficulties Group at community.greatschools.net/groups/11554

is it possible that this little boy just isn't ready for kindergarten? At five, maybe he needs a grow year at preschool.
The way you drafted your post I wonder if you don't think he is too cute and too little to expect him to manage the daily activities of a five year old...
While I agree with Healthy's input I just have to wonder if you are challenged when it comes to structure and discipline(not punishment) to help channel this childs needs and behaviors?

Over the years, people have recommended various parenting books that you might find helpful: "1,2,3 Magic" by Thomas Phelan, and there's "the Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, and I know there are a couple of "Stong Willed Child" books by James Dobson and others. www.amazon.com/Parenting-Strong-Willed-Child-Clinically-Six-Year-Olds/dp/0071383018/ref=pd_sim_b_4

Is he hungry or tired? Does he still need to nap? Is he in bed at 8:00. Kids this age need tons of rest and summer often results in bed time and TV watching too late into the night. If so those two issues are often the cause of many a meltdown. Also, increase his exercise and time outside away from electronics for unstructured play. Is he communicating with this wild behavior or is it just a bad habit that has developed and needs to change? I assure you this is not cute and at some point, he won't be five and this will just be obnoxious, disrespectful behavior. Get this fixed when he is young or I fear you will regret it and he will suffer. Consider this an opportunity to nip things in the bud. Assuming he has no disabilities, left unchecked, this could result in some type of behavior problem or disrorder later on. Honestly, how will he learn this way? It defies logic to think he will.

I recommend, "The Secret of Parenting". This simple book helped us get organized and coordinated about discipline/rules at home and gives great recommendations about how to handle noncompliance at home and in public. As the parent of another "cutest little boy youv'e ever seenI " I assure you, cute has little to do with it. It is about the childs "will to power" and the knowledge that you love him unconditionally. This stage can sneak up on a parent and then all of the sudden their sweet baby is a tyrant and trying to take over the house. Some kids,like your son have an intense temperment which makes this a bigger challenge, but also a risk for big problems later on. I thought it was corny and old fashion when my sister recommended this book, but it works better than anything I have ever tried. You and his dad or any other adults in your home, need to be very consistent for a few months and I promise if you REALLY DO what this book says, he will be a different child in a year or two. Hold firm and then you can enjoy your childs early school years instead of dreading the start of school. In our case the "transformation" took about 3-4 months from when we started with occassional outburst/defiance for about a year.

Make him a daily Schedule. Keep him in the rutine of things. Such as make bed ( even if it isn't right) Picks up dirty close in room, Breakfast, brush teeth, Read a book with mom, free play, Lunch, ect.. have it charted so that every time a task is completed let him place a sticker on that Item. Tell him when he fills his chart by the end of the week he will get to pic out a toy. "Dollar Tree" Kids love that place. Give him a buck and tell him to pick out one thing.

for me that was the easiest part of school for my son
all ihad to do was take him there and he met all the friends he wanted. i didnt even take meds to calm him down all it took was a simple calm down and lesso
from me one time and i would give him an award at the end of the day for bein good

I say front row! My wild child had to sit in the front row in order to behave. Watch his diet so that he is not eating any sugary cereals in the morning or any candy or sugar at lunch. A good nutritional snack is also important. Also make sure that he is given "run around" time immediately after school each day. He can get through it if he can rely upon this energy letting each day. The Strong Willed Child is an awesome book that will help your adorable but trying son. He may surprise you and behave in school , mine did!

Teach her what he/she needs to know to prepare him/her the best way possible. Read to him/her and you will see some results.

There are many great suggestions that may all work, however it is important for you to address his lack compliance with basic requests. Naughty can mean many things. While I hope the compliance issues disappear on their own when he goes to school, it is unlikely a seriously noncompliant child will transform themselves automatically without some instruction at home. Not impossible, just unlikely. Your original post said he, "has gotten worse". As all 5 year olds are noncompliant at times, it is up to you to decide how much noncompliance is age appropriate and will be tolerated, and what behavior is unacceptable or "serious".

Maybe he needs another year at home. I kept my child home for kindergarten. She went directly to first grade. Everyone I knew told me she would be behind,both academically and socially if she didn't go to kindergarten. The opposite was true. She was tested in the first month of the first grade and was found to be above grade level in every subject. She had absolutely no social problems either. She related well to the other children and to her teachers. I think that parents and teachers sometimes expect too much of young children. It is perfectly normal for a 5 year old to have trouble sitting still and paying attention for long periods of time. Schools are cutting recess time and then they wonder why "behavior problems" are increasing. I taught my daughter in a couple of 20-30 minute sessions,3-4 days a week.I also spent this time preparing her for what would be expected of her in the first grade. I believe this extra time at home gave her the time she needed to mature normally. She is still well above grade level,has friends and is involved in sports and music .

Wow! aurora123 had a great answer to your question. I have grown children and looking back to one of our children, we realize now that he may have benefited greatly from another year at home. The immaturity we noted in kindergarten manifested itself throughout his middle school years as he was behind his class in social maturity though 2-3 years ahead intellectually. School was difficult for him and we wish we had invested another year at home.

I just finished teaching kindergarten for my student teaching...and it sounds like he just isn't ready. If you send him and he's not ready, its just going to frustrate him. And trust me you don't want that....he isn't going to be able to concentrate in school and it will be awful for him, the teacher, and the other students. Then he will be "labeled" by the school and the other students. Have you taken him to the pediatrician? I have three children and I can't imagine not getting him to do his daily needs. Best wishes to you!!!

Sounds like he needs to understand that he needs to listen to you. You can create a rewards chart or go to your local teacher store and buy a rewards chart with some star stickers. Kids love this! You will find him wanting to please you! Its a great way for him to understand rewards and consequences!

I think the best way to prepare a child for kindergarten, in addition to the basic hygiene is to instill in them the concept that "other people matter and what they think of your behavior can make a difference". Your son is demonstrating a lack of regard for you and therefore is rather self absorbed. Your original post suggests, he feels entitled to do as he pleases. I notice in my day to day life, a definite split among parents with regard to teaching children basic manners and respect for others. Manners are a manifestation of consideration for others. They need to be taught just like toilet training. That is not old fashion. Interupting, ignoring people, not calling old people Sir, Maam, grabbing things, sass back, etc. are the many ways children tell us without words, "I run this place, and I do as I please." Many children walk into school oblivious to the idea that other people matter and have feelings. They are uneducated about the basic way to behave politely. They have no social inhibitions and very few boundaries. It is my belief these are often children who act out in school. Left untrained these children become rude, disruptive, mean or sometimes bullies. They often show little remorse. Your son is not entitle to run the house, or the classroom. If he can feel more for others, he may get a few inhibitions and start to develop some impulse control.

Your son will be well served by some basic instructions at the table, bussing his dishes, setting the table, helping carry shopping bags, picking up his things. The next time he won't pick up his toys, you might get a broom and sweep them into the trash. If he won't set his plate, eat lunch on your own and let him figure it out. The next time he asks for a juice box, tell him you don't feel like it. While I would not take this to extremes, you need to mirror his behavior and then ask him how it feels when you depend on others and they are selfish. Give the toys to a poor kid if he doesnt shape up. Tell him he can't visit his friend because he is too rude (once he knows the rules) He needs to get the understand bad behavior is noticed and has consequences. People won't want him around.

One last trick that I only need to do one time. I video taped my son being really rude. When he wanted to watch TV, I told him I wanted to show him the short clip first. This let him see himself with a little distance and he was so embarrassed he apologized and never did after that. I also told my son, "bad kid stories", when we were in the car and with him as a character I modeled him behaving well while other kids behaved rudely. He begged to hear these stories as well as stories from the, "old, old, old, days". Modeling good and bad manners and empathy may help him more than his alphabet sounds.

My toddler is a pill at home. He just started school this week. We were dreading the idea that he would be a pill there too, but he has been an absolute dream for them. The teachers all ooh and ahh over him, and every day we pick him up they have amazing things to say about him (and they don't fuss over all the kids when their folks come)...

The point is that you may be pleasantly surprised that your son may actually be better for someone else than he's been for you lately (which is actually fairly common).

barbara76,

I have just finished reading all of the posts here although I haven't seen a response from you. I hope that all of the replies have helped. I too agree that a daily routine needs to be in place. If you paint the picture for them and follow through with things, it is always a positive outcome. The child needs to know who is in charge and they will eventually appreciate it.

I am a Christian mom, and I know that if you would look into God's Word He would show you what to do. And if you follow what He says your child will become better. Also, don't ever let a teacher or anyone else tell you to just put him on some kind of medication. Most kids that are on meds don't need to be. It's a way for parents not to have to deal with their children, it's just a band aid that is put over the issue.
I will pray for you and your son! I'm sure he will do just fine in school!

With all due respect, babygee, I am also a Christian mom, but I happen to have a child who takes ADHD medication (which was NOT our first choice, and tried only after many other approaches were not effective.) ADHD is a medical condition, caused by an imbalance in the brain's chemical neurotransmitters, specifically dopamine, possibly others like seratonin, etc. That's why medication can help in many cases. I believe it is unfair to say that It's a way for parents not to have to deal with their children, and just a band aid that is put over the issue. While that may be true for a few, it is NOT true for the vast majority of parents I have met in different support groups over the years.
My son is now 18, and heading off to college on a scholarship this fall; he has good, wholesome friends, and has held a part-time job for over a year. While not perfect, this is the same boy whom teachers were calling about misbehaving several times a week when he was in kindergarten and early elementary school, and whom other children avoided and teased when he was younger. I am certain that he would not be where he is today, if medication was not included in our treatment approach.

babygee,

I have to agree with healthy11; having a son with ADHD and going through all of the struggles, I must say that althrough praying seems like the answer it cannot solely fix everything. There are many things that come into play when raising a child, we live and we learn and hopefully our children learn from the lessons that we set forth.

LogansMom827 and Healthy11.......good for you! I commend both of you for recognizing that your children needed the extra help! I am not a fan of meds but you are both absolutely right, sometimes you just have too. And ADHD is def a medical and not spiritual condition. Sometimes science is the answer. Not giving them the chance to take meds made by gifted doctors and scientists who have studied ADHD and know how to ease your concerns safely is in my opinion...a form of child abuse.

BarbH63,

Thank you! It is one of the hardest things that a parent must do... first even admitting that there is a problem, doing research on the diagnosis and then lastly the decision to medicate or not! It is very frustrating when people point fingers at those that have to deal with such issues. It is very easy when you're on the outside looking in :o)

Thank you for all the advice concering my son. I have put to use some of the ideas given. I have noticed that, if he runs around for awhile then he is more able to focus on his tasks. Also he is likes being mommy's helper with household chores. Damon's doctor is looking into Damon having O.D.D. Thanks again for everything.

I'm glad that you've found some things that are helping. You still might want to join the Learning and Attention Difficulties Group at community.greatschools.net/groups/11554
Please, keep us posted.

Hey Im not saying no one needs meds... and I am not on the outside looking in... I have four children, three boys and one girl. They are five, three, two and one and my five year old was one of the hardest children I have ever known to deal with. I can tell you about a time I called my mother in tears and asked if there was a baby bootcamp, bc if there was I would have sent him... But my point is, sometimes it is just not understanding your child. After really focusing on his issues as a mom and really taking the time with him that was needed, he has become a totally different child. Not only that but again as a Christian he asked Jesus to come into his heart last summer, and I will tell you that that was the biggest change in his little life. Younwouldn't believe the people that come up to me all the time and say what a different child he is. Again, I am not saying all children should not be put on meds, but I am saying that there are a lot of kids that are on meds that don't need to be. Me and my husband are missionaries to kids from K-12 and you have no ideas how many children are on meds for issues. So next time you want to accuse someone of being on the outside looking in... ask a few more questions first logansmom!

babygee,

You are correct in that not all kids need meds. I have not seen too many kids that are on medication just for the heck of it. It is a very touchy subject to those of us that have had to go through it as there are many different variations of ADD/ADHD. Each parent needs to take a good look at the problem and figure out a way to work with the child. Many of these ideas, thoughts have been mentioned.

set examples for him, encourage him, and reward him
with compliments, and never say I told you so or punishing him with to torture .

I'm sorry I just have to be blunt here...I am going to speak as an educator and a mom. I am reading these posts and some of them just stymie me. First let me say that I have never been a fan of long term meds...ever...esp for children.
As a mom, I can understand how difficult it is to even think about having to have your child on meds. The thought is mind blowing and frightening.
However, I read a post that says to find it in God's word how to treat a child....what word? Are we talking about the Bible? Does it say in it how to treat a child with a chemical deficiency? I think I may need to read it again. The problem with today's little ones lies not just in lack of discipline but a lack of chemicals getting to the synopsis in their brain (which synopsis-well that depends on the child's symptoms)
I am not bashing the thought of prayer.
But these child ailments didn't start surfacing until the modern world starting using chemicals. Agent Orange in Vietnam was a very clever chemical--for a good cause--but did they think of the repercussions? No. They made it to keep our soldiers safe, they weren't thinking of long term effects. The Coca Cola people weren't thinking about what drinking their product would do to a fetus. The hairspray companies, the nail polish companies, the hair dye companies, the people who made microwaves didn't think that we'd get radiation from heating our coffee, deodorant companies didn't think the aluminum in their products would lead to Alzheimer's either I am sure. So many products, so many chemicals. And lets not forget those people who never thought that when they smoked pot or drank when they were teens - it would affect their future children.
Just ask your doctor, we weren't meant to live past a certain age and that is why there are drugs for sustaining life now (blood pressure meds...etc)
Okay that sounds like just older people, but it also refers to young children- its called natural selection.
So no, not all children need meds, some are just very bad in the behavior dept. But when you have a child who you are having difficulty with just to get them to dress themselves or eat or brush their teeth- there could be some real medical issues here. Most 3 yr olds can do the daily personal needs or at least try or at
want to try.
As an educator, I see these kids every day. (I am a special needs teacher) What quality of life they will have, I have no idea, but it looks pretty bleak to me. And if you think that they (the children) don't notice that they are different, well you are so wrong!
So yes, use kind words (words are great, but if you think words on going to work in a child who has a chemical imbalance -you are sorely mistaken), set examples, make a routine, and pray......but for crying out loud if it looks like a child needs extra help then get the meds.
My theory is that God made the people who became doctors the gift of knowledge and drive ......after all not all of us are doctors and never could be.....so why not seek their help and listen to what they have to say??? Second opinions are priceless.

(stepping down off my soapbox now) :)

Babygee,

I am not going to bring myself to the level of argument but you may want to re-read your original message. You definitely came across in a different manner and by the responses most everyone received your message in the way that I did especially having a son with ADHD. We too went through many struggles and tried everything including outside counseling before trying medication. Again, everyone's situation is different therefore we must not point fingers but rather offer advise and listen.

We are experiencing much of the same, from a dutiful kind ,well-behaved child to a frog-killing door-slamming
house-wrecking monster in 4 mos. or less? My friend (A teacher) swears kindergarten will revamp their little brains as well as wear them down to the ground! Any ideas other than running them like little dogs?

uglyglugs, your situation sounds unusual; since you say that your child's behaviors have changed dramatically within the past several months...Is there anything that might have happened to cause extra stress in your child's life, such as the birth of a new sibling, or death of someone, or could he have stayed with a friend who exhibits the kind of behaviors you describe, or seen some kind of traumatic movie, and he's now imitating it? Perhaps his moody behavior is even some sort of allergic reaction? If you see repeated abusive behavior to injure or kill animals, I would definitely consult with a doctor, before it gets worse and his angry outbursts occur towards other children.

I'm going to start this with a little humor..I have an 8yo boy who exibited the same behavior... I used to tell him that if he didn't stop I would put my foot so far up his "butt" that the water on my knee would drown him!!!
We used to laugh about it. But as he was in 1st grd a few things happened.Then last year a teacher and anoter asked to meet with with me and his Spanish teacher "diagnosed" him with ADHD..Well this was surprise to me and I felt I was being ganged up on by these teachers.I am Italian from South Philly and live in Tulsa Ok. I did all I could from exploding..because he is a private Catholic school and I wanted to get the best education he could..He is extremly smart!! The diocese set up an appt with a neuropsycologist from the University of Tulsa,and i had to wait almost 3 months for the testing..after an 8 hour day of testing 4hours , an hour break and then another 4 hours,and a wait of 2 months for a diagnosis he was diagnosed with ADHD & ODD, put on stimulant meds @1 week at the end of the school year.They seemed to work for the hyperactivity but then he started to have periods of rage, exterme seperation anxiety from me (dad), and extreme obssesive qualities (very negative) and when told 'NO" he would go into rages starting for @ 15min then lasting up to 3-4 hours..I took him to a chils psychiatrist who said he was misdiagnosed with the ADHD and ODD and he has bipolar disorder...he put him on Abilify which worked well in the beginnig 2 doses untils he had a rare reaction(disphagia & tardive diskinesia) and after taking him to the emegency room and not calling me back for 5 days the doctor dicharged him leaving w/o meds..I believe the diagnosis and am still trying to find a dr that is a specialist in bipolar children, I have been to others but cannot find a 'Specialsist" in this field ..in Oklahoma..I have been working with the insurance for waivers and overides, advocates,to get the proper testing, diagnosis, and treatment not only for my son but for his mother and myself. I found that Children's Hospital in Phila Pa (see their website and go to the child psychiatry section and you will see why I am soooo impressed)The start from a lay person (teacher) diagnosing!!, filling out forms with her beliefs and B...S... testing by an incompetant "psycho"neurologist has put my son in danger and has created such problems in our home that the fights and arguments have put such a strain on not only him but his mother and myself..that I believe we both need heavy therapy...between trying to find a dr that can treat him..worrying about school...( He has been in a private school and I have had to go to the public chool system and am working to get him "homebound" schooling until we can get him "properly" diagnosed, good therapy for all of us..and the correct meds,in which we have to travel 1350 miles for...bipolar disorder shows all the same symptoms as ADHD & ODD & OCD...they can either be symptoms or actually be seperate (comorbid) we know that the symptoms are from the bipolar because the Abilfy took care of all the symtoms...until the rare reaction..so before any one (lay or professional) diagnoses your child make sure you educate yourself about what to ask a doctor about his training for ADHD,ODD,OCD,Bipolar, what test they use adult versions or child versions, do they believe in comorbid conditions! this will give you some idea of his/herknowledge and expertise...sorry this is so long but this is also helping me vent my fustrationwith how the healthcare field is turning to a revolving door...in give meds...out see ya in a month..and if there are questions or problems you need to see someone else attitude....Good luck David

I think you just have to start somewhere. We love ours kids and it hurts to be mean to them but we have to also let the understand that we are the parnets and you have to listen. My son last year at school was so bad, it got to the point that I was at school everyday for his behavior. But I had to let him know that everytime you act up Im coming to get you. This summer he has really calm down and I dont have any problems out of him anymore. So love your son and when he is not listening to you take away the things he likes to do and let him know why you tooked them away. That if he wants it back that he needs to do what mommy said to do...

David- It was so crazy when I was reading your story I was thinking about my son the whole time. Last year was a bad year with my son and I have three kids and a single mom so it was real hard for me. When school started last year my son got suspended the first week of school and then it seem like I was up there every week.The teacher at school and daycare could not control him and he was 5yrs old at that time. I didnt know what to do, I thought it was because his dad is not in the picture then I thought it was because he was the middle child and he felt like he was not getting enough love from me. When he's at home with me, I could control him but when he was away it was like another child. One min his sweet as can be then the moment when he dose not get his way he clicks into another child. His behavior was so out of control I had to put my son into a behavior hospital for a week so the doctors could see what was going on with him, Thank God I have military insurance. So when the doctors diagnosed him, they told me that he had ADHD, mood disorder,bipolar and that he was having seizures. So that was alot to take in at one time, so they put him on meds but it have him like a zombie all he wanted to do is sleep and then he started peeing in the bed every night. So after he got used to the meds he went to be angry and fighting his teachers and classmate and his brother and sister. So he started seeing a psychiatry and i dont think that was helping but they wanted me to set an appointment at Texas Childern Hospital for a neuropsycologist to make sure that he was not having seizures, which he is not. I have to say that TX Children Hospital is the best hospital to take children. But this summer my son has calm down so much that I dont have anymore problems out of him. David thank you for sharing your story cause I was feeling like I was in this by myself, I will be praying for your family and I know that it is very stressful but continue to love your wife and you too have to be strong for your baby. Also take time out at night for you and your wife to talk about how you guys feel and how you and her can make it better. Be greatful that you have her for your back bone and the same for her because there are people out here that only have themself to depend on and I wish I had a shoulder to cry on but I dont. So love your wife and talk and I wish your family the best and if you ever need to chat I will be here... Good Luck David... Mia

David,
Teachers don't diagnose, they suggest. They see a multitude of behaviors in children and when something stands out -they report it.
First grade is hard, esp in a private school. The child needs a break. You and your wife having tension doesn't help. Offering to stick your foot up his butt is cruel and unusual -even if he is laughing. And I can guarantee he has told a few people in school what you said. The correct diagnosis takes years as we still cannot read minds and emotions. You will get there. Best Wishes to you and your family!

BarbH63....If you read my intro....I said I was going to start out with some H_U_M_ O_R! I didn't go into all the details specifically....but the teacher has two boys (1) ADHD (1) ADD....through the dioceses a dr was recomended for the testing...come to find out...(after the fact!) the dr has a child in my sons grade but in a different classroom....I know a backdoor meeting was held, because of the "CLICK" thing at the school...I am not part of that!! and that is where the MISDIAGNOSES came from...my son was tested for 8hrs....and in the report in says his mother and I "DENIED" any anxiety or depression..also another teacher put that he was anxious, very selfconscious,easily embarassed ,fearful,worried,angry and resentful!!! and all these things...
I have been all over with drs. read numerous books, investigated all meds, searched for the top drs. in the country and willing to travel to get my son the best medical care available w/o any reservation of cost!.if insurance would not pay.....The principle of his school has admiited to me that these things probably did happen, and has apologized for the actions ... my son has just been enrolled in public school in a very special class which he starts Monday for one hour a day...his spot is being held at the school until his condition is stabalized and he can continue in a normal classroom environment..his summer and the progression of his disorder (bipolar) has been aggravated by the medication he was on and not only was his summer ruined...he has along with us ,his parentsare at our wits end.....soooo don't ever say that my traetment towards my son is cruel or unusual....A correct diagnoses does not take YEARS!!!! It is that kind of thinking that is leading misdiagnosed children and adolecents into drug use, legal problems, and suicide!!!! If you spend time with your children, read and investigate all aspects of life including our children "The behavior, and symptoms" will give an aware parent the knowledge to see that there is a problem and actually "TEAM UP"with the dr to help diagnose and treat the child...I am special dad who loves his son and have been praised for years for the way I raised him...( his mother was not in his life for over 7 years and I had him 24/7 during that time. she recently came bak into his life ( my request) to join in the treatment and diagnoses of the early onset of his original problems...Think again before passing judgement!!! David

Its great that you are on top of things. You would think a private school would be more sensitive to the child's needs, It must be frustrating. Why they would use their own doctor stymies me, it should have been an outside professional.
I am not passing judgment (you need to relax a little), I was merely making a comment that children with disabilities do not -can not- understand the same humor we do. (I work with children with disabilities--I am certified in that field and also have my psychology degree-so I think I am qualified to make a general comment) Not once did I say you were a bad parent.
Again, best wishes to you and your family.

I also teach Pre-K...have used the 1-2-3-Magic on my kids...will be trying this on my next 11 kids this year...works wonders with my kids....find it at any local bookstore...keeps conflict at bay...parents love it and are now using it at home too so it's consistent in school and in the home...give it a shot!

David I think that you are a great dad cause there are a lot of men that will not step up and take care of their kids the way you take care of yours. So continue being the great man that you are!!!!!!