I was excited to see your question and was hoping for a answer. It has been my experience as the mother of a dyslexic child that she made some gains in comprehension as her fluency increased, however, she still stuggles greatly with comprehension - according to standardized testing and my own work with her at night. I've seen gains in fluency and comprehension when she is in an intensive program - and few gains (and over time a slip because she falls behind again with fluency, vocabulary, etc...) when she is not. Hope that helps -

Hi LSCegypt: I was wondering if I can get your advice on software programs that would improve my child's writing skills for home use. I am trying to anticipate that one of the school's response will one or the other. So, if it is - I rather have the school handle the reading program and I take care of her writing difficulties. I have been searching for software that is targeted at the dyslexia population, regarding grammar, root words, sentence structure and all those things that a person needs to know in order to write well. I know you have recommended some things, but I am looking at something that a parent can easily follow without messing up too badly. What I want to do, is to be able to print a lesson 4 Xs a week, with one short composition per/week on any topic based on the lessons of the week. The lessons no more than 20 minutes a day, and since the written composition is just one page - she can spend another 10 minutes on it. The only thing that I have found is www.lexia.com that may fit the bill, and it does have home versions at a cost of $159.00 each. It is a little steep, but they might be something cheaper that may fit my needs.
As a parent, I am pretty sure that all dyslexic children need intensive help for all parts of reading and writing and it must happen at the same time. Presently, my child's comprehension is suffering because of her weak skills in reading and writing.
I hope that you do not think that I am so forward in requesting some recommendations, but where I live I do not have access to educational material and the education system does not allow a parent to purchase materials directly from the school or school board.
Perhaps, with a little bit of help from you - you could use my child as a test run for your hypothesis.

I haven't found any software that I am happy with concerning reading or writing. There is a program called "Fast forword" at

www.scilearn.com/

that seems controversial. "Reading Rockets" is another one. Merit software is another program.

Have you read the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Dr. Sally Shaywitz? It is an awesome book and has loads of ideas. Someone has my copy of it or I would pull out some of her recommendations.

The most effective writing interventions I have seen are
1. Say the sentences out loud, then write them down (transcribe)
2. Graphic organizers (Inspiration and Kidspiration)
3. Lots and lots of positive feedback
4. Real world writing - not contrived writing chances

Besides that, try to keep working on the basics (phonics and fluency with lots of feedback) and try to support what they are doing in school. I know there are no easy answers - boy do I wish there were!!!

Halfway though Overcoming Dyslexia. Have not reach the parts of where all the ideas are. I am extracting information from the book, what I know and observe and her assessments/recommendations and form a chart showing her weaknesses and strengths for the meetings and to be given to teachers. Mind you, what I am attempting to do with the school and the board may be a waste of time - since they believe (in this day and age) that dyslexia is rare. Also researching what is the best methods for home. FastForward is new way of changing the dyslexic brain into a more normal one. It is based on all the research for the past 15 years or so, showing that a dyslexic brain can change into a more normal brain and it is permanent. There is an Israel researcher who have turned dyslexics who are slow readers into accomplished readers through a modified speed reading program. I would love to get my hands on the research papers, and try to copy it at home. I also bumped into other brain exercises that had given me an idea on my child's handwriting. I started to promote the use of stencils, and now she has quite a collection. Within 2 months, her handwriting and drawing improved to the point that it is now readable. Now she draws and create crazy fonts freestyle. I believe it is tracing the letters over and over again in her little projects at home that promoted the memory imprint of handwriting. It is not great handwriting, but at least it is readable. I believe there is something to the brain research, and FastForward comes from what has been learned of the brain research in dyslexias. The bad part, is that FastForward is only available for schools and private tutor services.
I need to look at something that is not connected to her school work. The reason being, is the amount of homework that is given. If she did it on her own, she would take her all night to do it. Every night, I take a look at what she needs to reads, how much and how many questions. What I usually do, is to get her to read the material keeping the questions in her mind. Once she is finish, I will typed her answers from whatever she says orally. Sometimes the material is too hard for her, so I will recap the material into a one or two pages of condense notes, mind maps or charts. As you can see, I don't have a lot of time where I can allow my child to say the sentences out loud and than write them down with homework and assignments due, with marks taken off for each day pass the due date. I have been caught in this trap from time to time, so my child takes a day off to catch-uo with my help.
So I rather have a certain time period every other day, where she can concentrate on her writing skills, and somehow take what she is learning at home and incorporate it into her school work.
There is very little support at the school level. In fact, the school uses my child as a shining example for other LD students in the school. The school knows full well that my child would not be where she is today, if it wasn't't for the very strong support and my skills. Of course, this brings resentment towards my child by the other LD children especially in her classroom. " If Suzie can do it, you can to!", is an often repeated saying. What makes it worse, is that my child is the only one sitting in the regular classroom without modifications of tests, and even the homework. I just found out that two LD classmates that can be comparable to my child, had a different LA final exam and both had receive a grade in the 60s and the 70s. My child had to write the same final exam as the regular children, and of course she failed that one just like all the LA written tests of the passed two years. If those same children took the regular exam, they grade would be much lower than my own child. All throughout grades 6 and 7, my child's mark was consistently higher than the other LD children- even though they all failed.
Support for LD children at the school level mainly consists of remedial work, mainly taken from the regular curriculum. I have not seen new programs that are specifically aimed at dyslexics or what the school termed a language-based disorder.
On top of all that, I have been informed that my child may not qualify for remedial help, since her grades are well above 50 %. Furthermore, if I want my child to receive remedial help - I may seek to reclassify my child by downgrading expectations. If I do that, there will be little chance of my child going on to post-secondary studies.
You can see the trap that I am in, hence the hiring of a consultant for the fall meeting and one more stab at getting the correct help for my child.
So, put on your thinking cap on what I could do at home with some of the latest software applications that are aimed for home use as well as school use. I know there is quite a few applications, but I really don't know how good the programs are, and how easily a parent can run it without having an educational background. Perhaps, maybe all the SE teachers or specialized tutors on this forum can put their heads together on this one.

It sounds to me like she has way too much homework each night. The brain needs settling time and time to just be a kid. This is just as important as studying time. If homework takes over an hour each night, you may be winning the homework battles, but you may be losing the burn-out/comprehension war.

To LSCegypt: This is where the re-teaching comes in at home. I develop a fast and slow method. The fast method is employed on the eve of a test, where she knows little of the subject matter or she has not committed it to memory. This is usually on subjects that do not matter. I have used the fast method for math but it was because she did not commit to memory the math rules involved. I used it in the algebra test and we study until midnight. (about 3 1/2 hours) She received a 85% for that test.
The slow method is used every night and it takes care of two things - her studying and being more able to actively participate in the class the following day.
We barely kept up in grade 7, but it did show on her final exams. She pass all her finals except the LA exam. I was pleasantly surprised that my teaching method helped my child to retained all the information needed to cover a year's work.
For grade 8, if I do get the reading program plus remedial help for her writing issues - I am requesting the cut in the amount of homework in all core subjects except for math. I am going to leave this with the consultant to obtain for my child.
Meanwhile I have fine-tuned my re-teaching methods by combing through teacher and LD sites. It is not an easy method, but it does work for my child. Meanwhile over the summer time, my child and I have come up with a note-taking format where (I am keeping my finger cross) my child should be able to produce better notes. The bonus is, words that she does not know is incorporated in the note-taking method. At home, she can go over the words at her leisure with a little help from me. I am hoping that this leads to a big increase in volcab words and better reading fluency. At the end, a studying method that is more suited for her.
The school knows very well what I am doing at home. So far, I have failed in all attempts to show that she needs help in reading and writing.
The Wrightslaw site has been a blessing for me, since now I know how to approach the school without seeming to be a parent full of complaints. What I have never done working with any education official, is to lose my temper. I keep my emotions under wrap, until I can close the door of my home. So, this year I hope it will go better, but I still need to be prepared in the event that my child will not receive all her learning needs.

There is a difference between knowing something and memorizing something. Studying the night before is a memorization technique, but it doesn't build meaning. As soon as that test is over, she is going to forget most of the information. If you don't believe me, ask anyone who crammed for a test in college, got a good grade, yet forgot everything even days later. Making meaning takes days or weeks to build. If your daughter has a test on Friday, she should be studying for that test all week and do more of a quick review on Thursday and Friday. If she doesn't basically know it the night before, you can cram and maybe get a good grade, but she is going to forget it which means she has to be retaught. I'll bet you are doing a whole bunch of reteaching. Change the studying to days/weeks before tests, ask rapid fire questions, ask her to actually explain something in her own words, ask a lot of why, how, etc. type questions. This helps develop meaning and helps to make solid connections. Memorizing is okay for short term, very bad long term strategy to use.

It sounds like you all are really trying, and bless you for it, but at what cost? And please, I am not getting down on you because I really respect people who try.

If your daughter is doing well academically, your chances of getting help diminish. That is because the IDEA and NCLB was designed for students who are not performing academically. What is your daughter good at doing/like to do? Use those as hooks to get her to do more of those and learn how to write about what she likes doing.

I let my students use notes, I ask lots of questions like "How do you know ___?, What would you use ____ for?, or Why is ____?" and I don't have them cram for tests. When we have tests, there is a lot of notice given and we go over the material, and over the material, and over the material until test day. I also grade on content not grammar, I let them explain their answers, I require that they show me their work in math, and we go over strategies on a daily basis. I'm not sure what else I can say because I am not there, it's tough to give much advice because each student can be so different.

I do know the difference between memory and a sound knowledge of the material. The book, Overcoming Dyslexia confirms many of the things that I know my child is experiencing. Dr. Sally Shaywitz states that phonemic awareness is the best predictor of the ability to read words accurately or quickly. Phonemic awareness is my child's major problem through the psycho-educational assessments. She also states, that phonological difficulties are most significant and consistent markers of dyslexia in childhood. This same phonological weakness masks what are often excellent comprehension skills. She also confirm to me, what I have found to be true with my child is that dyslexics cannot simply memorize things. They must get underneath the concept and understand it at a fundamental level. This leads to a deeper understanding of the subject matter and it stays permanently in the long term memory. So, I do ask her all the probing questions as I answer all her questions. Many times we have gone well above what is needed to learn, because it helps her to understand. At school, sometimes the teacher will ask her all kinds of questions but it is only on the little bit they need to know. She can often fool the teacher that she has a sound knowledge, but it is rare that she can fool me. I have mentioned this several times over the course of the year, but this year should be different since I now have leading researchers stating why a dyslexic child cannot simply memorize things, because of the low reading ability they have less access to their higher cognitive abilities to show their knowledge.
Over the years, especially the last 2 years I have studied and learned everything that I needed to know to help my child. In fact, I am still learning - given the fact that there is an explosion of knowledge being generated by the leading researchers. There is also great knowledge being generated in the general education field, which I believe that schools cannot keep up, much less implement many of the ideas due to a funding problem.
But I am straying now, so back on the topic my child has a few interests such as ancient history and the language Spanish. I have tried on my own to have her write about these things. The problem is that my child knows that it is not supported at the school level, so she doesn't;t really have her heart in it. If she knew the work would be shown to the teacher, it would be a different thing. The school's response is that this is not their job. I am only going to mark or check things on assigned homework. The last time a teacher was willing to do it, was in grade 2.
As for her high grades, that could be quickly eliminated by stopping the actions of breaking down the reading material, and making sure she actually knows the material at a very deep level. She will fail or maintain a grade in the low 50s, right across all subjects, except for the subjects music, gym and French. At this school, nothing will be done until a child is failing in all core subjects. The only thing we have going for us are the two assessments, that indicates no improvements made from 2004 to 2008.
By the way, removing my help and support at home is not an option, because it will do more harm psychologically to my child.

Hi Swept: Here is a link, with that latest research of reading intervention:
tinyurl.com/6nx4s9
It is at www.sciencedaily.com
The article is called Remedial Instruction Rewires Dyslexic Brains. Many of the American studies are confirming the findings of studies done more than 10 years ago in other parts of the world. I am also sure, if you actually read the research paper, the comprehension also improve with the ability to read.
On a side note, I ran into a software reading program based on the Orton-Gillingham method. I find this one very interesting, because it can be done at home without a parent needing to qualify to teach it and it is very inexpensive. I was wondering if you could go on it, to see if it will benefit children who can read, but are struggling in some aspect. It has a school version to. I found this site on a link on the Science Daily News.
It is called the Language Tune-Up Kit.
www.jwor.com/index.html

It is an American site.

While it is possible for a dyslexic child to have problems ONLY with comprehension, it is unusual. More typically, a dyslexic child has comprehension problems because his/her phonemic awareness skills are poor. A child who decodes slowly and only with great effort will have trouble understanding the meaning of what he/she has read. By the time the child gets to the end of a sentence and has deciphered the words, he/she has forgotten what he/she read at the beginning of the sentence.

That's why being a fluid (rapid, accurate) reader is so important to comprehension. Some methods of reading instruction address all 5 areas of reading (phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension), while other methods address only one, or at least fewer than all, areas. For example, while Lindamood Bell's LIPS program focuses on phonemic awareness, its Visualizing and Verbalizing ("V&V") program focuses on the mental imagery needed to support good reading comprehension. The Florida Center for Reading Research at www.fcrr.org will tell you in its Assessment Reports which areas each reading method is designed to address and whether that method is effective to accomplish its goal.

Thanks for the reply. I was assuming an intensive phonics program and was looking at the longer term effects of a strong phonics program on reading comprehension. For example, if a student successfully completes the intensive phonics and is working on reading comprehension strategies, etc. will it "stick" ? Will the student continue to need intensive/moderately intensive phonics, or is the typical dyslexic student in the best position they are going to be in? I know they will continue to be dyslexic and will need extra time, but will they continue to need intensive interventions?

I hope I framed this so it makes a little sense! I know I worded it kinda weird, but it's the summer!

As I'm sure you know, the primary issue with most dyslexics is not phonics but what comes BEFORE phonics: phonemic awareness.

Phonemic awareness doesn't involve teaching letters; instead, it teaches about the sounds of our language.

Only after a child has good phonemic awareness can he or she progress to phonics, which is attaching the 44 sounds of our language to the 26 letters of the alphabet. That's why those commercial, heavily-advertised-on-TV phonics programs don't work for dyslexics: they jump straight to step 2 (phonics) without first doing step 1 (phonemic awareness). A recipe for failure!

When the student "gets" both phonemic awareness and phonics, comprehension (and fluency) should naturally improve. If further improvement is still needed, there are comprehension-only programs like Lindamood Bell's "V & V." These programs, though, require that phonemic awareness and phonics be well-established.

Until phonemic awareness and phonics improve, working on comprehension may well be a frustrating and expensive waste of time. Cart before the horse, really. It's kind of like saying, "Can my child work on calculus while she learns algebra?" It's a progression...you have to have the rules of algebra firmly established to benefit from calculus instruction.

If your child's phonemic awareness and phonics skills are now firmly established, yes, indeed, they will "stick." She will have them for life, just as you do.

I might be able to be more helpful if you could tell me what program(s) your child has used and is using for phonemic awareness & phonics and for comprehension.

AlReading: My child's main problem is low phonemic awareness, which both assessments confirmed. At the start of reading instruction in the primary grades, she learned to read by memorizing the words. By grade 4, she was receiving lessons in an Orton-Gillingham approach. Within 8 hours of instructions, immediate improvement in reading, writing, and her work. At the end of grade 5, it was decided by the school to remove this type of instruction even though they were only halfway through it. During grade 4 and 5, there was steady progress in my child's problem areas. From the beginning of grade 6 to now, I have seen the steady decline in her reading and writing skills. Now, I am seeing major declines in sounding out words and she often guesses at the word, ' i ' sounds turns into the ' u ' sounds or vice-versus and it also shows in her writing.
In the book 'Overcoming Dyslexia", I finally understood why she was able to read material that is of interest to her. She loves ancient history, and she takes the time to read and decode passages, but she is not under any type of pressure since it is not school work. She also loves to read humor books. When she has trouble with a word, I will just tell her what it means. At school, the reading material she uses the skimming method, often getting the wrong answers or even partial correct answers. My child usually takes the reading home, and we will go through it together by breaking it apart into smaller chunks, and than she will answer the questions orally, while I typed them on the computer.
Of course, all of this affects her comprehension skills, and in turn her writing skills. If it wasn't for her very strong strengths, she would not be coping as well as she is. The school does not see her strengths as well as I do, and how they interplay with her weaknesses where one day she does very well and the next day she is struggling again. They view her reading of non-school reading material as confirmation that she is a good reader, and should be capable of reading any grade level text book.
My child scored high in comprehension in both assessments. Average on decoding single words. But very low in phonemic awareness. Do you not think the school should be questioning the average on decoding single words, since it may indicate that the child is memorizing words?

I am a teacher and we use the Barton System I am well aware of the whole "phonics" part. We do teach phonemic awareness, code knowledge, phonemic manipulation, and phonemic segmentation. I am okay with all of that (and yes I am fully aware that this is no easy road for a dyslexic!). What I am looking for is this, after an intensive phonics program (and yes I realize that phonics is more than just the 40 to 50 sounds), what is the outlook long term especially in reading comprehension?

So I am just looking at reading comprehension - nothing else. What does the longer term look like?

Thanks for the reply and I hope I've cleared up my question!

Therose - So would your recommendation be one of continuous work with an O-G program, even though it looks like it has been mastered? It almost sounds like a dyslexic needs constant review of the decoding/awareness throughout their time in school. Would you agree with with that or disagree?

The reason I ask is that I have several dyslexic students and I want to make sure I am setting up a program that will help them be successful in the long term - not just the short term. I have noticed that dyslexics can decode, but then forget what they have learned the next day. Kinda like the movie Groundhog Day.

Absolutely! My son was pulled from our public school in Massachusetts and went to a private school that infuses Orton-Gillingham (a structured, multisensory language education program) into its curriculum. He entered reading 4 grade levels behind in 5th grade, and left two years later reading on grade level. Look for Orton-Gillingham tutors, and when you find one -- grab them!

With the new methods that are being using in most O-G programs, one must make sure that decoding and phonemic awareness is master before moving on to the other parts of reading. The book Overcoming Dyslexia does explain the process but can be a head twister for people who do not have dyslexic children. One can tell if a reading program is a good fit for a child within a few hours of instruction because the child's reading, writing and work should improve. If not, try another O-G program.
My child like your students have developmental dyslexia where the phonological weakness is the primary and the other parts of the language system are intact. The reading impairment is at the level of decoding the single word. What has happen in my case, and what you are seeing that these children need more exposure to the sounds or words over a longer period of time before it is store in the memory for good. My child hated the reading sessions, because she would get yell at for forgetting sounds that were leaned on the previous day. She did not do it on purpose, she needed more exposure and this requires a lot of patience from a teacher. Remember these types of dyslexics all have trouble with rote memorization and rapid word retrieval. At the same time, they are quite capable of memorizing it using their short-term memories. but it takes a much longer time to enter into their long-term memories to create fluency and automatic recall.
This is where they can fool people, especially teachers. Actually my child is quite adept at fooling the teachers, which leads to the appearance that she is not trying hard enough or she does not need any help.
Overcoming Dyslexia also mentions the problems that are associated with developmental dyslexia. The very weaknesses can also be their strengths and drive any patient teacher around the bend including parents.
My only suggestion is that a reading program for dyslexics must be executed in the correct way according to the weaknesses and strengths of the student. One cannot skip steps, but must start at the beginning. It must be intensive, and as far as I am concern done daily. The process cannot be rushed, and it should be monitor and assess from time to time to see if improvements are being made. In my case, the reading was not done in the correct way, steps were skip, and the program was not finish.

"My only suggestion is that a reading program for dyslexics must be executed in the correct way according to the weaknesses and strengths of the student. One cannot skip steps, but must start at the beginning. It must be intensive, and as far as I am concern done daily. The process cannot be rushed, and it should be monitor and assess from time to time to see if improvements are being made. In my case, the reading was not done in the correct way, steps were skip, and the program was not finish."

So - does the phonics program need to be continued after apparent mastery of the O-G intensive phonics program? As far as I can tell, O-G is not set up to be a very long term program (like for years and years). That's where I am curious. Does phonics need to be covered, at least into high school?

It sounds like, in your case, it does need to continue through high school and beyond. What do you think?

So CreativeBonnie - do you foresee the need for additional phonics - O-G style - to continue on this year and for subsequent years?

Hi LSCegypt,
I don't even like to hear the word "phonics". Because what dyslexics need is so much more than just phonics. Of course if our public schools taught reading using phonics again, it would be step in the right direction. And I wouldn't complain, but it would not be enough for children with dyslexia.

There are simple, 10 minute evaluations that can be done in first grade to determine if a child is at risk to have dyslexia, especially if there is family history.

Once a child has mastered all levels of O-G, he/she is pretty much set for life. To build reading fluency, they will need, like anything else, to continue to read and practice (with encouragement from family if they still are not a fan of reading). My son (entering 10th grade) graduated from The Carroll School in Massachusetts (O-G based curriculum) with low fluency. He was not a fan of reading. He is doing wonderful in reading and his reading fluency is good. He is a real success, thanks to The Carroll School and O-G.

I agree that "phonics" or whatever term you want to use, is not the only thing that needs to be done - there are also reading strategies, writing, grammar, vocabulary, and I am not dismissing the other work that needs to be done. I was specifically asking about the need for a continued intensive O-G program, or were they just needing some extra time, and some other modifications to the curriculum?

We, dyslexics, need to be "directly" taught. That means, show us how by doing and using the tools. We can not learn easily by sitting in a classroom of 30 and listening to instructions or whatever.

O-G is all these things you meantioned plus being directly taught. That is the key. And guess what, we get it! We apply it! We retain it! It's really wonderful to see the success build in the eyes of my students!

To LSCegypt: Once a child has mastered all the levels of an O-G reading program, they are set up for life as CreativeBonnie has pointed out, where reading does not become a chore. The secondary help in reading strategies, grammar, writing strategies, vocabulary, and word attack strategies all help to promote effective reading. For older students who had some type of reading program but it was not finish are students who are at a higher risk for regression on their reading skills. Thus older children need to have both running at the same time, but keep in mind the child's strengths and how they interplay with the weaknesses.
The programs are set up in such a way that it does require at least 3 to 4 hours of instruction per week. I Often schools do not have that kind of time, and the number of hours are cut and the ending result is that the students are rushed through the program. Newer programs, are different in the fact that some parts are done on the computer, other parts are the traditional method and some parts are sent home to the parents following directions that are carefully crafted to limit the variables at home. All the research-based reading programs that I have research, do not set time limits, but will say it is dependent on the student, the teacher's ability and parents cooperation.
Phonics instruction is important in helping them to learn new word attack strategies. From what I know, schools often skip the learning of the phonemic sounds and go write into phonics instruction which is a disaster for any child who has low phonemic awareness. My child will have to relearn all her sounds, before she can begin phonics instruction. The second time around should go a lot faster, because my child is motivated enough and has a better understanding of why she is a slow reader.

Have you heard of the 32 Degree Masonic Learning Centers for Children through out the U.S.? I am employed by one and currently tutor children there.

Since tutoring is *free* for children and their families, the Center provides only two one-hour sessions weekly. The only other work done is at home fluency drills -- which are not required. I can say that even two hours of instruction per week for seven months during the school year has shown great improvements in phonemic awareness, word attach, and reading comprehension.

Wouldn't it be great if public schools could do this?

Yes that would be super, but public schools appears not to have a lot of common sense when it comes to have outside services working hand in hand with the public schools, especially those that are voluntary in nature.

CreativeBonnie: I LOVE Scottish Rite (Masonic Learning Centers)! There should be one in every city. To other parents: If you have one in your city, call and ask about its services for children with dyslexia. They know the science behind MSL reading instruction. They regularly present at national dyslexia conferences. Could you provide the website for interested parents and/or a list of where the 32 centers are? Thanks.

TheRose:

You asked: "My child scored high in comprehension in both assessments. Average on decoding single words. But very low in phonemic awareness. Do you not think the school should be questioning the average on decoding single words, since it may indicate that the child is memorizing words?"

My answer: Absolutely, it should be! You are a very astute parent. Your child likely needs to start over with phonemic awareness instruction and finish the intervention. I'm so sorry it's been so truncated for her (and you).

www.childrenslearningcenters.org/contact.html

Their annual Walk for Dyslexia is coming this fall at different Centers across the U.S.