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RJsMomma

June 16, 2009

Can someone please help me interpret my 8yo's WISC-IV and WIAT-II?

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WISC-IV: VCI - Composite Score (108), Percentile Rank (70)
PRI - Composite Score (121), Percentile Rank (92)
WMI - Composite Score (80), Percentile Rank (9)
PSI - Composite Score (100), Percentile Rank (50)
FSIQ - Composite Score (106), Percentile Rank (66)

Similarities - Scaled Score (11), Percentile Rank (63) Vocabulary - Scaled Score (11), Percentile Rank (63) Comprehension - Scaled Score (13), Percentile Rank (84)

Block Design - Scaled Score (12), Percentile Rank (75) Picture Concepts - Scaled Score (16), Percentile Rank (98) Matrix Reasoning - Scaled Score (12), Percentile Rank (75)

Digit Span - Scaled Score (7), Percentile Rank (16) Letter-Number Sequencing - Scaled Score (6), Percentile Rank (9)

Coding - Scaled Score (9), Percentile Rank (37) Symbol Search - Scaled Score (11), Percentile Rank (63)

WIAT-II: Word Reading - Standard Score (105), Percentile (63) Reading Comprehension - Standard Score (121), Percentile (92) Pseudoword Decoding - Standard Score (107), Percentile (68) Composite Score - Composite Standard Score (112), Percentile (79)

Numerical Operations - Standard Score (117), Percentile (87) Math Reasoning - Standard Score (108), Percentile (70)
Composite Score - Composite Standard Score (115), Percentile (84)

Spelling - Standard Score (96), Percentile (39)

WIAT-II [a second report]: Word Reading - Standard Score (106), Percentile (66) Reading Comprehension - Standard Score (120), Percentile (91) Pseudoword Decoding - Standard Score (103), Percentile (58) Composite Score -Composite Standard Score (110), Percentile (75)

Numerical Operations - Standard Score (119), Percentile (90) Math Reasoning - Standard Score (108), Percentile (70)
Composite Score - Composite Standard Score (115), Percentile (84)

Spelling - Standard Score (89), Percentile (23)

The school psychologist said that my child is fine and doesn't qualify for any services, and that it's simply a matter of having the right teacher who will know how to adequately address my child's needs. This doesn't sit right with me. The CSE meeting is coming up in just a matter of days, so any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

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Parent Replies to "Can someone please help me interpret my 8yo's WISC-IV and WIAT-II?"

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Michellea, I will definitely post after the evaluations are completed. You've all been so helpful throughout this process!

JPMS, you've pointed out some good information. Thank you! The more I'm learning, the more I'm seeing that the discrepancy between the scores is what's most notable!

jpms3164, I invite you to join Greatschools "2e" group at community.greatschools.net/groups/16042

I am a parent of a child who is "twice exceptional"- Learning Disabled and Gifted. Districts tend to focus on the average of the scores, and not always the discrepancies between strengths and weaknesses. When looking at a standard score, keep in mind that 100 is the 50th%- average/dead center; scores of 85-115 are within average.With the percentile ranks, if they are at the 70th%, 30% of their peers scored higher and 70% were lower. School psychologists tend to average the scores, so if there is a deficit in one area, they minimize it. A standard deviation is 15pts., a difference of 1 1/2 standard deviations (22 pts.) between areas should be a red flag.
WISC-IV: PRI - Composite Score (121), 92%- strength
WMI - Composite Score (80), 9%- weakness; the 41pt. discrepancy between areas is significant.
Comprehension - Scaled Score (13), 84% strength
Picture Concepts - Scaled Score(16), 98% strength
Digit Span - Scaled Score (7),16% weakness
Letter-Number Sequencing - Scaled Score (6),9% weakness
WIAT-II
Strength Reading comprehension- 121/120
Numerical Operations 117/119
Relative weakness-spelling 96/89
difference= 25/31pts
Ask them to explain these scores to you.

Great news!

If you have any questions once you get the evaluation reports back, feel free to post. Sometimes it helps to bounce off questions and concerns. And we can probably help you forumlate some questions to ask at the meeting.

Enjoy the summer!

Thanks! I always appreciate all the great advice!

RJsMomma, it's great that you're getting more information. Just so you know, (another terminology thing) unless you're in TX, most schools don't recognize the term dyslexia, but they DO refer to SLD's (Specific Learning Disabilities) in Reading and Written Expression, so it's important to have your evaluator consider that, NOT just say dyslexia. If your child has an SLD, then he may qualify for an IEP, which provides more legal protection and remediation than a 504Plan.
If your child has an Executive Functioning Difficulty, that's NOT a category of IEP eligibility, but if he's got that issue in addition to ADHD and/or an SLD, it can be addressed in the IEP. (IEP's for ADHD are considered as OHI - Other Health Impaired, even if there is no SLD.)

Thank you for all the great input! You're all wise, and have helped me tremendously!!

With the CSE, we've created an Instructional Support Plan, which formally documents and outlines specific accommodations for the classroom. This is just the starting point. Over the summer, I'm having my child evaluated privately to rule out the following:
1. Executive Functioning Disorder
2. ADHD-inattentive subtype
3. Dyslexia

After the formal evaluations are complete, I'll have a better idea about what to do next. If something can be diagnosed in the formal evaluations, then my child will qualify for a 504 plan.

Thanks again for all the support and knowledge that you've shared with me!

Fostermommy -
You sound like a wise advocate for your son. A critical aspect of good advocacy is to seek help when needed. Although I am a parent advocate that helps other families, when it comes to my own son, I too seek help from other professionals. Like you mention - the emotional aspect is difficult to overcome.

Wrightslaw is an amazing resource www.wrightslaw.com . as is their book "From Emotions to Advocacy". In addition, families can seek training from their state's PTI, they often offer free or low cost local training on Federal and Sate disability law and related issues www.taalliance.org/ptidirectory/ .

I hope you have found an answer here in others' responses. In my experience (Son age 9 with ADHD), our school system has been quick to shut the door on any additional resources. I should say WAS quick to shut the door. I educated myself, and hired an educational consultant to advocate for my son. I hired this person because I felt I was far too emotional, as a mom, to objectively look at issues and press for solutions. Not only that, the woman I hired has knowledge of EVERYTHING, and I mean everything to do with IEP's, diagnoses, etc. You must stand your groud for your son. I sense you will. A lot of doors were closed for my son until they realized that I know a LOT and what I don't know my ed consultant knows. I hate that schools appear to be thinking only of cost to them when "qualifying" students for services. My son is so much more than a dollar sign. Wrightslaw has been crucial resource for me. This site is also helpful, if for nothing other than to let people know there are others out there who are experiencing the same thing. A mother's intuition is a wonderful thing. You know something is amiss and you are willing to go to any extent for your child. It stinks that I have to pay for someone to get for my son what the school system should readily offer. However, if I had not taken that course, I'd be lost.

Thank you for all of the excellent information! I will definitely be asking all the right questions, using the information you've shared with me. Thank you!

RJsMomma, again, it's a matter of using the "proper" terminology...even though your son may not have the hyperactive type of attentional issues, it's referred to as ADHD. (ADHD-inattentive subtype, or ADHD-in for short) The term ADD is seldom used anymore.

I would be careful with the ISP. In my state, there are no procedural or legal rights that come with an ISP. While it may appear to work like an IEP, if the teachers choose to ignore it, you have no legal recourse. An IEP offers you the most stringent legal protection via IDEA and Civil Rights law, and a 504 has you covered under ADA/ civil rights law.

I'd ask about accountability and the process to resolve disagreements if the ISP is not implemented as intended.

I agree that ADHD should be considered. I wasted about 2 years with my son refusing to openly consider ADHD. ADHD can be extremely debilitating - especially if paired with other LD's. Even with small group instruction, untreated ADHD can create an enormous barrier to learning.

Best of luck.

Thanks for all the excellent advice! The Instructional Support Plan is part of the IEP, and this all does fall under RTI.

I especially like the following suggestions:
"...request a specific timeline (in terms of weeks) of interventions being implemented for the progress monitoring to occur to determine whether the interventions are working and appropriate or decide if your child needs more intensive instructional supports."

We have our annual physical scheduled for next week, and I do plan to speak with the Dr about ruling out ADD. It's definitely not ADHD, but I do want to rule out ADD. From my research, it seems more likely that it's Dyslexia, so I'm going to have my child privately evaluated this summer. If the private evaluation shows Dyslexia, then I'll be able to ask for a 504.

Please keep the suggestions coming! You've all been a wonderful support, with much appreciated knowledge!

I concur with healthy11 and would urge you to rule out ADHD first. I am not familiar with the term ISP. I think your child would have more protections under the law if your child was served through an IEP or 504 plan.

Accommodations are not the same as remediation for specific skill set weaknesses. Accommodations allow for access to the cirriculum -- while a student receives remediation for a specific skill set. See the following article:

www.greatschools.net/LD/school-learning/accommodations-IEP.gs?content=713

If the ISP is a response to intervention to another tier of instruction, I would at the least request a specific timeline (in terms of weeks) of interventions being implemented for the progress monitoring to occur to determine whether the interventions are working and appropriate or decide if your child needs more intensive instructional supports.

Time is of the essence to close any gaps before your child reaches the stage where instruction changes from teaching a child to read to requiring a child to read in order to learn. Please note the following article:

www.greatschools.net/LD/identifying/reading-disorder-or-developmental-lag.gs?content=743

(448829)

Some terminology differs from state to state, school to school. I don't know what an Instructional Support Plan is. I'd feel better if they said it was a 504Plan or IEP, which are terms used at the federal level. I wonder if the ISP is some kind of "Response to Intervention" program... If you want to go to sites like www.wrightslaw.com and look up "RTI + the name of your state" you might be able to find out more....Another forum, where you can get additional good information from "seasoned" special ed parents is www.millermom.proboards107.com
And please, do consider the ADHD possibility...It's been said that even the best instructors and tutors, using the best methodologies, can't be as effective if a student isn't able to focus and pay attention to what they're trying to teach.

dhfl143, Healthy11, & Michellea,

Thank you for all the information, advice, and the very informative links. In just a matter of days, I've learned a tremendous amount and cannot thank you enough for your help!

I did learn that the 1st WIAT was age-based scored, and the 2nd WIAT was grade-based scored, which explains why I had two reports.

On another note, I also learned that my child DOES qualify for an Instructional Support Plan. The school psychologist was pushing me to cancel the CSE meeting, but I refused. I talked with other people in the school district, who were able to get involved, and they contacted the school psychologist on my behalf. Now the school psychologist is stating that she's recommending an I.S.P. and will come to the CSE meeting with a list of possible accommodations. I'm also going to prepare my own list, to propose to the committee. If you have any suggestions, PLEASE send them my way.

Thank you again!!!

Rjsmom,
Your son's cognitive scores are very solid except for his working memory score. Working memory is often defined as the ability to hold pieces of information in short term memory, draw upon other info, manipulate the info in short term memory and create output. It comes into play in any complex task such as reading for meaning, writing, performing math problems etc. Your son's weakness in this area may be creating a road block.

You also mention some very specific concerns that are red flags for reading difficulties. (I know, I have a son with significant ready ld's!). The WIAT tests are all solidly in the average range. But, the WIAT is only one test and has it limitations. WIAT is not timed - therefore the test results on this test may not be representative of what happens in the classroom when longer passages are given, time constraints are in place and the skill of reading must be integrated with learning new information, writing, discussing, connecting old info to new etc etc.

If you are concerned about literacy, I think you need a wider battery of reading tests. I would want to compare his results on TOWRE (test of word reading efficiency) to the WIAT, for instance. Here is a link that describes some of the tests used for a READING evaluation. (and I have it in caps to emphasize the reading over a more general academic). www.concordspedpac.org/Whichtest.htm

In addition to reading difficulties, his profile also indicates a need to consider executive functioning difficulties or ADHD. As Healthy mentions, this could be with or without, hyperactivity, impulisivity. Many kids (mine included) are very well behaved and still have ADHD -usually the inattentive type. This would be very common with lower working memory or processing speed scores.

Hi again. I'm puzzled as to why you have two different WIAT-II reports, but in any case, I understand why the school psychologist is saying your child doesn't qualify for services, based strictly on the "numbers." In both cases, the WIAT, which is an achievement test, shows your child to be performing at mostly average or higher levels, and compared to his measured IQ ("potential" or "ability" level) he's really doing about what they'd expect, except in spelling.

Now, what you may not know, is that most school psychologists are not clinical psychologists, meaning they are NOT able to diagnose "medical conditions." ADHD is a medical condition. Has anyone ever evaluated your son for attention deficit disorder? On the WISC, having low scores in Digit Span is a "classic pattern" of having attentional difficulties. People usually think of ADHD kids as "hyper," but there are actually 3 subtypes, and the "Inattentive" variety is usually the one that pediatricians "miss" because kids aren't "bouncing off the walls" and "disruptive," but they experience many of the difficulties in school that your son is having. I would bet that's at least part of the reason for your son's struggles. www.help4adhd.org is a good site to learn more.

If I were you, I'd ask your pediatrician for a referral to a child clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, and if your son is diagnosed with ADHD, then he should at least qualify for a 504Plan with accommodations in school, and possibly even an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) under OHI (Other Health Impaired.)

Take a look at these two websites:

www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html
www.dyscalculiaforum.com/viewpage.php?page_id=1

Start there and feel free to post any additional questions that you may have.

(448850)

My 8-year-old child is warm, friendly, and sociable. However, my child has recently become very critical of self and repeatedly refers to self as “stupid” and “not smart”, and says that they “will never do well in life because of it.”

I am concerned about the following areas:
• Poor grades despite significant effort;
• Need for constant, step-by-step guidance for tasks;
• Cannot remember problem solving steps and/or not comprehending the tasks or logic behind them;
• Poor memory of spoken or written material;
• Difficulty mastering tasks or transferring academic skills to other tasks;
• Cannot remember skills and facts over time;
• Strong general knowledge, but not a strong reader;
• Listening skills/Following directions;
• Frustration with school and homework;
• Slowness in completing work, and struggling to keep up with the class;
• Low tolerance for frustration;
• Low self-esteem

Some of the academic gaps I have personally observed and noted, are that my child has difficulty with:
• Recalling, either in sequential order or randomly, the days of the week;
• Differentiating which days are “weekdays” and which days are “weekend”;
• Recalling home phone number;
• Recalling home address;
• Recalling alphabet without singing “abc” song;
• Basic addition and subtraction Math facts up to 20;
• Counting backwards;
• Word problems in Math - is only capable of utilizing one strategy (drawing pictures - no other strategies);
• Temporal (time) concepts;
• Recognition of money (coins and/or bills);
• Tying shoe laces (incapable)

I brought these specific areas to the teacher's attention several months ago, and the teacher has not done anything with my child to made strides in any of these areas. The psychologist said that the WMI from the WISC-IV would account for these areas, but that the problem must be solved from my end. I'm wondering whether my child qualifies for Resource services, because my understanding is that Resource would be a time when topics are reintroduced for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th time, etc., and that assignments are "chunked" and differentiated. It seems to me that this is what my child needs. When I asked about Resource, the psychologist said that my child does not qualify.

What are your concerns about your child's abilities? What services do you think the school should provide? I'd like to help but there must be more than the test scores. . .

This article might help you understand some of these scores in relation to the bell curve:
www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/tests_measurements.html

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Can someone please help me interpret my 8yo's WISC-IV and WIAT-II?

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