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My son had a diagnosis of Specific learning disability when he was 10, the results of his test (BAS II) were verbal 88 (21%) non verbal 130 (98%). He did the fast forword program 3 years later and improved a lot at school, he did the Kaufman test at that time, he was 13 years old and he got a verbal of 93 (32%)and a non verbal of (87%).A year after we evaluated him again . He did the WISC IV and got a Verbal 89 (37%), Perceptual Reasoning 100 (50%) Working memory 88 (21%) Processing Speed 83 (13%).  He is going to do Cogmed during the summer to improve his working memory, and with that I hope he will be able to perform better in school. I ask the Psychologist why his non verbal when from 130 (98%) to 100 (50%) and she told me that Non verbal IQ can change with time, I told her that i was not satisfied with the answer as he was test last year and got also a very high score for that. The  Psychologist told me that now that his Verbal IQ is better he does not have to rely on his Non Verbal IQ that much and that is way it decreased, for me all this does not make sense!! Should I have my son test again? Can Non verbal decreases so dramatically??

  Thanks for your help!
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Parent Replies to "Non verbal IQ"

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healthy11
healthy11 June 8, 2009
Re: Non verbal IQ
Mari, what country are you currently in? Canada? The U.K.? Part of the problem may be that evaluators in other countries do have different criteria for what they identify. As I said before, use of the term "dyslexia" is particularly confusing.

If your son has not had an audiologist do a comprehensive evaluation for Auditory Processing Disorder, then that should definitely be done. Here are two CAPD articles that you may find informative:
ocslha.com/Ferre.htm and
www.firn.edu/doe/commhome/pdf/y2001-9.pdf
Also the book, "When the Brain Can't Hear," is very good.

You have also gotten some good advice in your other posting, at millermom.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Education&thread=8479&page=1
mari1971
mari1971 June 7, 2009
Re: Non verbal IQ
The three evaluations were done by different private Licensed Psychologist. On the first report they say is a Specific learning disability and the Psychologist assured me it was not Dyslexia. On the last report the Psychologist told me that due to his results she cannot say that he has a Specific learning disability, (He has improved on the verbal abilities), but a low listening comprehension ability. She made a series of recommendations like to have writing instructions, more time to comply his class work, and assessment for auditory processing and the Cogmed program to improved his working memory. We are moving this summer to USA; I will bring all this information to the school and see what they will tell me.
All this is very confusing but the good thing is that if it can identify things that will help my son to do better is worthy, after he did the fast ForWord we know he improved a lot, after this report I want him to do Cogmed and I hope it will help him too.
healthy11
healthy11 June 6, 2009
Re: Non verbal IQ
Mari, is your son attending a public school? Does he have an IEP? What is his eligibility category listed as? Are these tests that have been done, being done by private psychologists, or school staff, or ? Were any achievement tests or other tests given at the same time?
Most good evaluators will give you a detailed report after testing, that explains their findings, and refer to DSM categories (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which is what doctors use to identify specific problems) and their report should also give you, a "layman," a good idea of what might be helpful in the way of remediation and accommodations. Most schools don't like to use the term "dyslexia," but they will make reference to "Specific Learning Disability in Reading," for example.
mari1971
mari1971 June 6, 2009
Re: Non verbal IQ
Thanks for your replies! My son is 14 years old now and what I really want is to help him to do better at school. I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one who thinks is no sense to believe that a person’s ability can fade away. I am not really familiar with all the test but I thought they measure the person potential, so non verbal in all the test should be the same thing, even though they don't use the same way of measure , or not ? Also he had a second test last year ( Kaufman) where he got a 117 (87%).
None of the evaluators has said to me that he has dyslexia or ADHD. The first one, who was by the way a person with a lot of experience, told me he had Specific learning disability and his problem was to process the information, understanding and writing..
TeacherParent
TeacherParent June 6, 2009
Re: Non verbal IQ
What she should have said if she were going to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth is that IQ testing is an inexact science - and there's really no way to go back and see if the first test was administered properly or scored properly - there's no way to do that with any IQ test.
IQs in fact don't change, by definition. A child's rising score - or lowered score - doesn't mean his IQ has changed. That remains the same - what's changed is his ability to interact well with the test. His potential, if you will, has been awakened or actualized.
You're right - what the psychologist said to you doesn't make sense but psychologists in a way are like magicians - magicians are reluctant to admit there's really no rabbit in the hat and it's an illusion. Psychologists are reluctant to admit that IQ testing is a bit of an illusion too - we can't really ever know what a person's true IQ is - we can only know what the tests show us and they don't always make sense.

Neither does the suggestion that your son's non-verbal IQ is withering away because he now employs his verbal skills. The proof of these tests is in the pudding - as an old saying tells us. What you want is for your son to be successful in school. I hope next year proves to be a great school year for him!
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