Ad
My son recently had an independent evaluation and was also tested at the school.  He is five years old and entering Kindergarten.  On the school ER my son was given the CELF Preschool 2, the results were: Core Language 69, Receptive language 59, Expressive Language 73, language content 63 and Language structure 69. On the subtest it indicated sentence structure 5, word structure 2, Expressive vocabulary 7, Concepts and Following Directions 4, Recalling Sentences 7 and Word Classes 0.

The independent evaluation used the TOLD-P4 test. the scores he received were combined to yeld six separate composites for language. Those Index scores are: Listening 86, Organinizing 72, Speaking 67, Grammar 82, Semantics 65 and Spoken Language 71. I'm trying to make sense of this, and the school district says the results are the same and that there is no difference. Does anybody understand how these test compare and whether they truly are the same. The school agrees there is a language disability but the level of support is in question. Thanks for any help!
You must be a member of this group to post a reply. Join

Parent Replies to "Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?"

RSS View 8 replies: Newest-Oldest, Oldest-Newest
Display fewer replies
michellea
michellea August 29, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
OK - it did it again. I give up.
michellea
michellea August 29, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
I apologize for my crazy response. I typed in the percentile ranks for all of the Celf scores, but the message was truncated. I went back to edit, and scores came off again. Must be some kind of bug. Anyway, here they are:
Core: 2%
Receptive
nicknatmom
nicknatmom August 29, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
I can't comment specifically on the scores because we have had several test and the scores are still kind of confusing to me. However, my son is 4 and was in speech therapy for 2 years. When he entered the program, we didn't know what was wrong. When we finally discovered he had speech apraxia, we weren't sure he'd ever speak normally. He graduated from speech therapy on Tuesday! While he still has a way to go for perfect pronunciation, he has come incredibly far. It's important to sit on your SLP (Speech therapy) lessons to learn the ways to help your child learn to speak normally. If you can't do this, ask for detailed notes from your SLP therapist so you can work on the same things at home. Don't be afraid of this diagnosis.. I sure was, it's treatable and the earlier you have caught this, the better. Good for you for having these tests done now!
michellea
michellea August 28, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
Yes - mandep is right, the expressive langauge scores are his relative strength. Celf Scores are standard scores, the subtests are scaled scores. Neither are stated as percentile ranks. The percentile ranks would be as follows:
Core Lang 2%
receptive
mandepp
mandepp August 28, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
I would just like to clarify that the CELF scores are standard scores and not percentiles. Also it is important to note that your son's receptive language (i.e., his understanding of language) is slightly lower than his expressive (i.e. his ability to use language to communicate). Therefore, he really needs speech and laugage therapy. Speech therapist usually work on the "articulation" of the words, but your son likely also requires language therapy to build on his understanding of language and developing sentences etc. In regards to his level of support, I would advocate for several sessoins of speech and language therapy a week. He would likely benefit the most from pull-out services in either a one on one or small group setting. If you the school will not provide him adequate support or services, you could also look into him recieving additonal private speech and language services.
jlharshbarger
jlharshbarger August 28, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
I live in a different state, but my daughter had the same tests you are referring to and your son should certainly be in speech therapy which will help him develop his speech ability in terms of his peers speech/communication ability he is ranking below the level that is expected from his age group.
And the numbers on the test are what percentile of the children all over the world's score, so lets take his score in Speaking it is a 67 so compared to his peers of the same age group his rank is in the 67th percentile. Which is better than half, but not great. That is where they get the slight delay in language. So they should implement a speech class into his school time. And it may take a few years but he will out grow it or he may need it always, but I am certain that it will not affect his ability to prosper in his life.

I hope I have helped, Someone that could help you is your school district's Special Ed. Counselor or a Speech Therapy Provider (this would be the best bet) just google "speechtherapy(in your state) and see what results you get. I hope you find some

Good Luck Jodi
therose
therose August 28, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
Language and speech skills can be taught. My own child is a case in point. If the school is questioning the level of support - asked them how classroom instruction would strengthen his weaknesses in the language parts. What is important is to give him the correct help now, rather than waiting to see if he is developing problems at the grade 3 level or above. If my child had the proper reading instruction based on a O-G method in the beginning, she would not have half the problems that she is experiencing at the present time. Often schools would rather delay help, hoping the strengths will carry the child through. However, the strengths often masks the weaknesses until grade 3 or above when work is very dependent on a firm foundation in reading and writing, and the strengths can no longer support the weaknesses or the core problem. In my child's case, the core problem was low phonemic awareness that was masked by her ability to memorize sight words, which presented a false picture of learning to read. As a result, the school delay testing based only on her high scores, and ignored the signs that this child could not sound out words, or be able to break apart the word and the various sounds.
michellea
michellea August 27, 2008
Re: Trying to understand the evaluation speech and language results for my son?
Hi! I just posted my answer at Questions, but I'll repost it here.
Overall, quick look at the scores looks like they are all in the same ball park. So, the second test validates the CELF.

The scores you have reported on the CELF are both Scaled Scores where 8-12 is typically considered average and Standard Scores where 90 - 110 is average. On the TOLD-P4 you have Standard Scores. I find it more helpful to convert the scores to percentile rank.

The percentile rank gives you a comparison of your child's abilities against same aged peers.

Your child's expressive language is a relative strength. On the CELF he scored a 73 which converts to the 4th percentile. This means that out of 100 same aged peers your son would score better than 4. His expressive vocabulary subtest was also a strength at a 7 - this falls in the 16th percentile.

In general, his scores are low on both tests. How old is he? What kinds of concerns do you have? What services are they offering? Did he have other testing? How is he with other skills - small and gross motor? When you post back with this info, we may be able to provide more insight.

By the way, when my son was 2 he scored very low on speech tests. He is now 11, and although he has learning disabltities, he scores VERY HIGH in speech. These are skills that can be taught.

Edit Answer question
Report it michellea 6 minutes ago

I agree with Healthy, you will get more info at learning and attention community.greatschools.net/groups/11554,.

Meanwhile - a quick look at the scores looks like they are all in the same ball park.

The scores you have reported on the CELF are Scaled Scores where 8-12 is typically considered average. And Standard Scores. On the TOLD-P4 you have Standard Scores. Usually 90-110 is average. I find it more helpful to convert the scores to percentile rank.

The percentile rank gives you a comparison of your child's abilities against same aged peers.

Your child's expressive language is a relative strength. On the Self he scored a 73 which converts to the 4th percentile. This means that out of 100 same aged peers your son would score better than 4. His expressive vocabulary subtest was also a strength at a 7 - this falls in the16th percentile.

In general, his scores are low on both tests. How old is he? What kinds of concerns do you have? What services are they offering? Did he have other testing? How is he with other skills - small and gross motor? When you post back with this info, we may be able to provide more insight.

By the way, when my son was 2 he scored very low on speech tests. He is now 11, and although he has learning disabltities, he scores VERY HIGH in speech. These are skills that can be taught.

Any contributed content above is the subjective opinion of that member or external author, and not of GreatSchools. GreatSchools does not check for accuracy in community posts or verify the contributor’s identity. If you are searching for health-related advice we strongly suggest you seek professional medical support. View our Community Guidelines for more details.
Local Q&A is brand new! What do you think? Give us your feedback in our feedback forum.
AD
AD
Join the community or login
Join the community or
Read our community guidelines and FAQ
Community Moderator
Email the Community Moderator for help
tracker