Hi Snowflake, Michelea, Another ditto or I agree with what you both said. Snowflake, stated " It was stated by his case manager that he had LD and therefore had difficulty learning in general, comprehending, and understanding concepts- which could not be farther from the truth. His study time was taken up being treate as if his probelm was low intelligence , and surrounded by children with serious social /behavioral issues. "
This is why, i spent a lot of time reading why schools have a tendency to lump kids under the LD label. We all would have a better chance under the European system, except for Germany (one country that still educate the LD kids in separate schools. I have not check lately, but that was about two years ago. I dug deeper, by following the money. It is some hard to find info within any public education system, where the figures are stated in the costs of an LD child, or a dyslexic child or any other special needs. Lots on regular students, but very little as to the benchmarks for other children. Over the years, I have gathered information, mostly from research studies, conducted by others who work within the education field, but are not part of the public education. Some of it come from U.S. studies conducted by the federal arm. I have watch with great interest, the inception of the IDEA laws, other early intervention methods, and yet Americans still had trouble accessing and receiving the proper help for their kids. I believe the U.S. Supreme Court ruling, part of the decision that went in favour for the parents, rests on the premise that if schools were not willing to provide the proper help, than give the parents an option, and make the school districts pay. The judges probably had the dollar amounts on what the costs are if a school provided the help, as opposed to what it will cost from a private school. The costs for a dyslexic, and other LDs depend on what their weaknesses are, how many problem areas, plus all of them need intensive targeted lessons in spelling, grammar and other basic language skills. At the same time, following more or less the same curriculum as the regular students, in the core subjects in math, language arts, and complete elimination of subjects such as health, social studies with a reduce content for science and other essential subjects. It is necessary to make the time for the targeted lessons and programs. Before you say, it cannot be done. It has been done, in Ontario, under the Catholic board in Toronto. Most LD kids spent two years before moving into the regular classroom. The costs was about $2000 more than a regular student. The average costs in Canada, is about $7000 per student. If LD kids had access to what I have describe above, the costs would be about $2000 more or less depending on what the weak problems the individual student has.
From my research, most kids who are either under the LD or dyslexic label, are lucky to receive $500 more in services, that is above the average student costs. This is where parents run into trouble at the school level, because we are asking for specific programs, targeted lessons and other items where the staff must be trained, the costs of special resources, and a lot of time spent in administering the special program for LD students. But the costs at the school level pales, when looking at the costs of private schooling for LD kids. I will be watching with interest, if the people who hold the purse strings at the state level, if the light bulb will go on in their heads. The majority of special education children, are the LD kids. Far more cost effective to provide the help at the school level, than it would be if the school district had to pick up the tab for private schooling.
As for the debate of dyslexic and LD, does it really matter what label, when both groups are not getting the proper help needed for them to become successful, independent learners?

I have not been here in a while but I have to acknowlwedge that I agree with all of you, and can realte to many differnt experiences. While we have an understanding of what dyslexia is an is not, many school personnel do not have this level of understanding. When I agreed to sign my son into special eudcation, it was with the reassurnace that the case manager understood dyslexia as differnt from other LD's, that he would have access to technology to help him succeed and learn at his level, and with the hope of getting an MSR program in place. This was not the case. It was stated by his case manager that he had LD and therefore had difficulty learning in general, comprehending, and understnading concepts- which could not be farther from the truth. His study time was taken up being treate as if his probelm was low intelligence , and surrounded by children with serious social /behavioral issues. Before all this , the first essay he wrote for his English class was a full page, about how much he loved his life. . After a few weeks in Spec.Ed., he said if he has to put up with this kind of treatment, life isn't worth livng. I was promised I could take him out of that group but he ended up having to spend the rest of the year in this environment, caught up in red tape (since of course they did not take my concerns seriously and blamed the parent instead ). He went from being a year and a half behind to 3 years. The next year we had a new turnover of staff, who allowed me to take him out before it was "legal" . I told them if he had to set foot back there, he would be home-schooled. By the end of the year, he had reached all of his state benchmarks. So while I agree that dyslexia is a difference in learning style, there is no guarantee that the child's school will have staff with an understanding or ability to help a child succeed and alot of times won't even want to hear about it. He does have a 504 now because of his diagnosis of dyslexia, and
after our experiences I will never again allow him to placed in Spec. ed.

I have a child with severe dyslexia and dysgraphia. He is extremely bright with cognitive scores in the 98 percentile. That said, he has tremendous trouble learning to read, write and access the general curriculum at school.

Bottom line, in most American School's if you cannot "read to learn" and "write to show what you know", it is very hard to learn and function like neuro-typical peers. This is where IDEA and section 504 come in.

So - does my son have dyslexia or does he have a learning disability? In my opinion, dyslexia IS a learning disability. LD is a VERY broad category that encompasses the many profiles you have listed.

I disagree that LD is a tattoo that infers he cannot learn. I believe that it means he learns in an unconventional and often more time consuming way - regardless of his overall cognition. He needs to see a word 1,000 or 2,000 times before he recognizes it automatically. He needs to learn and re-learn spelling generalizations over and over - so that they will stick and then he must practice more to learn how to apply them automatically. And - give him a few weeks with no practice, and he must study all the word patterns again to re-learn what does not stick. If this isn't a disability, I can't imagine what is.

Does this mean he needs to be defined by what he can't do? No. What it means is that he needs specialized instruction to learn and accommodations so that he can access material at his intellectual level. With these supports, he will be successful. When he and others like him are successful and begin advocating for themselves, we have a chance of raising awareness and removing the stigma of LD.

Therose,
Obviously, you had done a lot of research on dyslexia & LD. You are right there is a lot of misunderstanding by the public and school staff about both dyslexia & LD. I believe that is why the TX parents fought so hard to get a multisensory dyslexia program mandated here.

I was a special ed director for 27 years until I retired and went to work for the state Parent Training & Information Center. In TX the Scottish Rite Hospital (Dallas) & the Neuhaus Center (Houston) have developed high quality instructional programs based on Orton Gillingham. They also do teacher training (about 2 intense years). We sent staff for training from both of these facilities. I have wondered if Scottish Rite facilities in other states have developed a program for dyslexics or if they might use the TX program.

It must be the early dog days of August, in July. The old debate on LD and dyslexia. For Holeman, what you essentially define is found often on European sites. LD is define much differently in North America, and excludes other disorders such as cognitive delays, autism, and other disorders that requires other services besides education services. As for Europe, dyslexics have their own category, and if North America adopted this one, about 80 % of the current LD population, would be reclassify from LD to dyslexia. I am in agreement with Chucknoe. My only debate, is and has always been with how public education systems handle and managing the mild to moderate LD population. It is within this group is where one will find the dyslexics where they are not receiving the proper services, and it does not matter whether one is labeled LD or dyslexic, or for that matter if it is mandated by laws. There is systematic problems within the public education system, meeting all the learning needs of children. It would be better, if our educators had their voices heard and their knowledge being heard among the ones who hold control over the purse strings. I believe Chucknoe is a principal, and correct me if I am wrong Chucknoe, the parents are some lucky to have you at the helm, based on your postings. I have not yet met an educator that is willing to go pass their misconceptions of LD, and educate themselves on learning problems of children. In my corner of the world, misconceptions such as dyslexia is a rarity or dyslexia is the inability to read and write. Or other statements, where learning problems is the result of a development delay caused by parents who are not providing the proper supports at home. Now-a-days, school officials rarely debate with me on their stances, but than again it could be fear, in case I am recording their reasons, that is often based on personal opinion, and certainly not on current knowledge.
By the way, Chucknoe I took your advice last summer. It was not totally effective, but it did shift focus unto my NN's learning needs. What did Armstrong say, "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." I cannot compare it to the landing of man on the moon, but it is small step forward.

Right or wrong the IDEA definition includes dyslexia under LD.
"The "LD" tattoo infers an inability to learn, need for psychiatric-biological intervention and even mental retardation that simply do not apply to dyslexics!!!"
LD = In ability to learn.!!! Mental retardation!!!!! WHAT???? lol

¶ Dyslexia is NOT a "Learning Disability", L.D.!!! To have any dyslexic student's 'permanent academic records' branded with "LD" can be a door-closure to private, parochial, advanced-learning and other schools...including small public campuses that have no funds for "LD" kids.
¶ Dyslexia IS a "reading and writing" challenge whether one is a child, teen, young adult, middle age or senior...but never a "disability". The "LD" tattoo infers an inability to learn, need for psychiatric-biological intervention and even mental retardation that simply do not apply to dyslexics!!!
¶ Never, ever allow public schools' Special-Ed departments-psychiatrists to afflict your child with the acronym: "L.D." For most dyslexics LD is the physiological equivalent to 'leprosy' on campus in ongoing education. DH

I am not disputing what is happening in Texas. But in Texas, as well in every state and province, there is the mild to moderate dyslexic student, that needs the same type of intensity, as the ones who are more severe. The difference between the two groups are the number of problems. The mild to moderate usually has two to three key problem areas, whereas the severe has 6 to 8 key problem areas. Ten years ago, my child would not be able to attend a school that deals with learning disabilities, because she only has a few problems. Not now, kids like my NN can enter now and attend for a couple of years to clear up her problems, and than reenter the public system. Problems such as low phonemic awareness, which has been shown to be one of the key elements for reading and writing. Last research paper I read, there is a direct correlation between low phonemic awareness and vocabulary. From what I have determine so far, there is a lot of debate between the educators and the researchers as to what is the bare essentials that children need in order to read and write. But at the end, it is the people who control the purse strings, are more likely to control flow by using benchmarks. Dyslexic children often become the victims, since their needs often cost more and requires home and school to be on the same page, for programs to work effectively, which is a steady improvement. Having laws are very well and good, but only as good, as long as the laws are being enforce. In one way, it is wonderful to see a movement towards separate program needs for dyslexics, but the mild dyslexic is still caught in a web where there is a good chance, that the mild dyslexic will not be given the targeted help needed, with or without legal laws in place.

Therose,

Under IDEA dyslexia is included under LD.

In TX the parents of children with dyslexia lobbied the legislature for a specific program, separate from special ed, to serve these students. They were successful. The program starts by serving any struggling reader who is identified by reading tests that schools must give to Kndg, 1st, & 2nd graders.

Then if a student continues to struggle or is identified as dyslexic, the school must provide a multi-sensory program. Most schools use programs based on the Orton-Gillingham method. Since I live in TX & worked for the schools I am familiar with how the system works here. While students do fall through the cracks, etc., what is provided here is much better than what most states provide.

Just thought to provide the link for the Texas dyslexic handbook. Under Texas, dyslexic is a considered part of the specific learning disabilities. This term, is relatively a new term being use in the public education system.I have done recent research on this term, since my province has now started to used this term, without clearly defining it. The current definition from the International Dyslexia Association states:
Dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurological in origin. It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and/or fluent word recognition and by poor spelling and decoding abilities. These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the phonological component of language that is often unexpected in relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective classroom instruction. Secondary consequences may include problems in reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede growth of vocabulary and background knowledge (Adopted by the International Dyslexia Association Board of Directors, November 12, 2002)."

From what I can gather, is to include all who is experiencing trouble in reading and the all the parts and activities related to reading. It is the mild to moderate group, as with my child would have greatly benefited from receiving early intervention, as the one described in the Texas handbook. But, and this is the big but, that children must meet a certain criteria to avail of the help. Children who are maintaining passing grades of 50 % or a little higher, do not meet the criteria for help. As a result, even though these children are displaying signs of reading and writing problems, their learning problems are not addressed. For the most part, these children have to relied on their strengths to get through school. That is, until high school and the greater majority end up dropping out, taking basic courses, because they all have poor skills in reading and writing.
What Chucknoe has stated, is true but what parents should know, is it that children must meet certain criteria to avail of dyslexia services. Although, I have never read rules in black and white that states a child to avail of any service, must be below a 50 %, the clues for parents is at the school or board level. but parents should listen carefully at the school or board level for clues. Clues, such as little Suzie just needs to try a little harder, or maybe little Suzie is only capable or getting a C average, or the more obvious one of little Suzie is maintaining a passing average. From my own experience and knowledge, the responses above is given to sideline the concerns of parents and issues that deal with reading and writing. Underneath it all, lies the real reason. The reason being is cost factors relating to dyslexic children, or the LD child or now the newer term, a specific learning disability. The costs are related more to trained staff at all levels in the K to 12 system. Having a 1 or 2 day conference once a year will not do it. This is where the public education system does not have the will, nor the determination to change the status-quo. The status-quo being, that it is acceptable that 40% of any student population will have very poor skills in reading, writing or math. It is acceptable for the bulk of LD children that are mild to moderate, to do without the specialized help and make do with the skills of the general classroom teachers who may or may not process any knowledge regarding LD or dyslexia.

tinyurl.com/ndzzzv

As with most issues, it is important to know your state rules. In TX, state law requires that all schools have a dyslexia program that is different than special ed services.

Of course, some schools do a better job & take this more seriously than others. However, there is much more info about dyslexia here than it sounds like there is other states. I believe that several other states have laws requiring dyslexia programs.

Here and here, I second it! One should be added , but than again when the professionals are not qualify - why bother. Fact is, that each dyslexic is unique with their own set of strengths and weaknesses, and resources/programs must be adapted to the dyslexic, and not as it happens today, using any old program as long as it does not cost the school any more money than what is slated for regular and special education children!

Dear Parent of a dyslexic student:
¶ Join the crowd, stand in line. There are two words I have found are never spoken on/in school environs: "leprosy" and "dyslexia". Firstly, remember that dyslexia is "not" a disease and there are no state or federal grant funds available to public schools to tutor dyslexic students. Always follow the money...and where there is none, you'll find no support for your dyslexic child(ren).
¶ Secondly, it's my lengthy experience with pub-ed to NOT even use the word dyslexia re: your child(ren) as very few pub-ed Special Needs departments or personnel are knowledgeable about dealing with dyslexic students. Worse, a great many of them (in particular school psychologists) believe that ADD & AD/HD are one in the same with dyslexia: "neurological miswiring". That's a glass of water half full. Biologically they all are neurological miswiring, but they are NOT related. And NO medication can aid or cure dyslexia. The worse plight for a dyslexic child is to be placed in Special Education programs with ADD, AD/HD, Down's, autistic, etc. students and absolutely tragic if medications are subscribed to a dyslexic.
¶ Regretfully your only resolve will be outside intervention. Always ask (demand) to know if the person screening or advising on your dyslexic child is "certificated", "practiced" and/or "trained" in working with dyslexia...and ask to see their certificates of same. I've done this often and gained the rage of school psychologists & Special-Ed teachers because nary a one had any dyslexia tutoring experience or credentials. Psychologists are keen to tell parents of their knowledge in all-things "reading & writing" when in fact rare few have any qualified educational background in dyslexia as it is now known today.
I had to take my son to an outside tutoring class after having him screened by a certificated and qualified dyslexia professional. His school wanted to place him with 504-Plan ADD, etc. students and inappropriate programs. I was fortunate to get outstanding advise and recommendations through the Susan Barton "Bright Solutions" program which specializes exclusively with dyslexia through modern-day research...not old wives' tales: "Dyslexia is where people rear and write backwards.", etc. Bright Solutions is on the web.
¶ While it's a push to pay for the outside dyslexia tutoring, it has been a Godsend to my son's reading & writing development. And has vastly reduced his academic frustration and struggles. Moreover, he "knows" he's dyslexic, it's lifetime and that he's learning the tools that will carry him throughout his life.
¶ As a note, psychologists are NOT Medical Doctors...that would be a psychiatrist. Neither of whom study dyslexia in their college education curriculum, saving some verbal presentations.
¶ Lastly, buy the book "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Drs. Sally & Bennett Shaywitz. It is the first, foremost and best modern study and research on dyslexia. Moreover it's THE bible for dyslexics of which I am one, my father was and my son's two cousins are. It's hereditary and overwhelmingly male.
Good luck? DH, La Crescenta, CA

To Buckaroo: I did not know that a parent should always have a copy of any paper written by anyone on the team, until two years ago. The last two years, I have somehow managed to keep all interactions civil. with school officials with no threats on my part. I try to keep it on my child's learning problems each and every time even though at times they resorted to questioning my parenting ability, or even I should get a life that does not concern family members. I want it to remain as civil as possible, since I have good reason to fear repercussions for my child. That is why it is important to change the label from learning disability to dyslexic, so the school can begin to understand these children need specific help done in the correct manner.

To CreativeBonnie: I too am a dyslexic, but I was one of the lucky ones who received G-O therapy and this was back in the 1960s. Back than, I was not inform nor my parents of my problem but the reason told was due to the major speech delay, and this would help me to overcome my problems. It certainly did that for the exception of one area. This is my question, how did you learn your sounds? Was it difficult? Today, I still cannot sound out words and that means even the simple three-lettered words. I will still avoid words that I cannot pronounce very well, until I have mastered them. Of course, I cannot help my child at home as effectively as another parent who does not have the problem. I may be in the situation where I may have no choice but to become qualify to teach the O-G method, and it really scares me that I will be incapable of learning my sounds, or it will be with great difficulty.

therose,
I would take the copy they want to sign and put it in my backpack and say I would return if after I have my lawyer look at it and walk out. What can they do?

I always record my IEP meetings (at least I do NOW). If it is allowed in your district, you might try that. They would have a hard time explaining why they won't give you a copy of your child's education record!

So sorry you are having to go through all of this.

I had the same experience with our public school in Massachusetts. My sons are now ending high school. It was a long road. Hang in, and find yourself an Orton-Gillingham tutor. Yes, they do help! I am such a believer, that I went and got certified myself. And I am have dyslexia. I have never been such a good speller in my life!

My family's experiences with dyslexia was so negative. So, I founded "The National Society of Creative Dyslexics". www.creativedyslexics.org.

Don't give up.


M

Oh by the way Buckaroo - I do see the IEP, and yes I sign it, but it is taken away from me, and in all cases when I request a copy - the answer is always no. When the consultant comes down, it is one where she will read the riot act to them. That is against the rules, no matter where you are in the province. I think the only reason why it is done, because I am the only parent who will, not just might, talk about it to people outside of the school or discover the IEP was done in the wrong format. I just recently discovered this, and at the end of this school year, I was presently surprised to see one that was almost filled out like the ones that I have seen on the internet. However, I was perplexed since I did not participate or had my concerns address before the form was filled out. But I did asked the right question on how the school could decide on my child's needs, if the school was not inform of the results of my child's reassessment, when I had not been inform myself. I know it was done backwards, but I signed it anyways because of the accommodations that I had been seeking. I did add a condition which was added changes pending to notification of results of reassessment. I just leave this with the consultant, and I just have to make sure that my smile is only showing in the inside of my mind, when the consultant brings up these matters.

Some provinces do a better jobs than others. The big difference between Canada and United States is the very fact of the funding formula. Each provinces are the sole funding source for public education. There is no federal involvement except for post-secondary education. In the States, the federal level funds a large chunk and has a great deal of power besides setting standard regulations.
Canada residents can search high and low for forums like Great Schools, simply because they do not exist. Parental involvement is very low, and when parents have problems - the education systems are set up in such a way that isolates parents from the main core of parents whose children do not have learning problems. This doesn't't happen in the U.S. because of the federal involvement in public education. I believe parents all over the U.S. feel much more at ease talking across the many education forums, learning from each other.
The really sad part is that the Canada Learning Disability Association does not have a forum where Canadian parents can get together and talk. It is the lack of funding mainly, but it does not help when the current government cuts the grant to them.
As for me starting a blog or a web site - I be really afraid that the provincial government will force me to shut it down or I will be sued for my troubles. Or I have government people posing as parents. That is why I try not to give any identifying markers by sticking to my child, province or Canada. At one of the meetings this year, before I even started out with my concerns, my letter to the editor was shown to me which was very critical of the provincial education system. If I started a web page or blog, the school officials would probably pull this out to rattle my cage.
So places like Great Schools are a lifeline to me, so I won't feel so alone.

therose,
I hadn't realized that things were so different in Canada! Can't imagine not being able to get a copy of your IEP? How do they expect you to sign it?
But for the record, I did not just walk in, demand what my child needed and they handed it to me. I WISH it was that easy. I had to fight every step of the way. Many here choose not to fight, or don't know how to begin. Its sad.

Therose: You rock, mom! I would hate to be the obstacle in your child's path to success! :-) You really are a model for the rest of us. I agree with all you say. A lot of parents of kids in ESE do not realize that their child's school has put the child on a track for a "special" rather than a "regular" diploma. As you might imagine, this has disastrous consequences for college admission and for employment. I encourage all parents to ask hard questions about this NOW. Don't wait until high school. You'll probably have to get to the district level to get your questions answered, as the individual schools won't know the answers.

To Buckaroo: I am from Canada, living in a province where the education system provides limited help for dyslexic children. In America, the individual states from what I read here at Great Schools and on other sites - all handles LDs differently. Some do it better than others. California is one of those states that does a better job in getting the correct help and accommodations for LD kids.
As Allreading has pointed out, I am worried about the future when my child will enter into university/college. I discovered to my horror, that the school educational psychologist cannot specify what she has, because she reads well according to him and her grades are very good. He also added she has never been dyslexic and has only dealt with two dyslexics in his lifetime. From that moment on, I now know what I am dealing with - since than have been on an offensive collecting information, strategies and anything else that will help me in my quest.
It is even more urgent, since my child is entering into grade 8, with poor writing and reading skills. Her grades are good, due to all the tutoring and support at home. On top of all that, I have discovered that the majority of LD kids are pushed into the general or basic courses at the high school level which severely limits their choices in post-secondary education. The kiss of death for the LD kids, are the remediation that is offered at the high school level, which are programs that do not even begin to address the needs of my child and more than likely a great many of the LD kids.
I live in a rural part of the province, far away from any urban areas and there is no private services for LD kids.
I once trusted the school, but no more. I now understand why the school was upset with me teaching her at home. I understand why the school ignored my child needs despite all my advocacy, because my child was already labeled probably by the end of grade 3 as non-academic material.
I have no solid evidence as of yet, but the education stats tell a different story where over 40% are graduating with a general diploma. Evidence of reading assessments that end at the end of grade three for all children. There is no concern if a child can read with fluency, as along as the child can read no matter how slow he can read, or how many words he is tripping over. My child is not an isolated case in her classroom, in fact my conservative estimate is 40% of the children are poor readers and it certainly shows up in their grades. There is many more factors involved but the one that stands out to me is the repeated refusal over the years of giving me copies of my child's ISSP (IEP). I have come down to the conclusion that the school is hiding information that could be damaging to them. The only thing that I do have are copies of the assessment. The irony in this situation is that all recommendations are for dyslexic children under the label language-based disorder.
As you can see, try to understand why no matter where one lives - a parent who is trying to obtain services must look at their approaches and which is the best one for their child. If I use your approach in my case, it would not be effective because I am dealing with a education system that has outdated methods in handling LD kids. My problem is that I am asking for a newer method that is more suitable for my child.
I certainly wish that I could just walk in and demand just like you but since the school has been informed that I have hired a consultant - we are not on very good terms.

What I'm saying is that dyslexia is not the same for everybody any more than aspergers or autism is the same for every person. What it takes to remediate one dyslexic might not work for another. A full psycho-educational test is a good first step. The results of those tests show the deficits and determine the best methods for remediation. Again, it varies from person to person.

Thus, rather than get hung up over getting your school to call it dyslexia, you can get what you need by calling it a specific learning disability. As long as they provide what the tests show your child needs.
If you don't agree with their test results, then request (in writing) an independent educational evaluation. And don't let them bully you into only choosing someone from their "list". Just get their requirements and choose for yourself.

A diagnosis of SLD will get you the accomodations needed for dyslexia to get extra time on tests, etc. I know this because no school in California uses the term dyslexia and yet accomodations are made every day.

OK, bear with me on this boring explanation:

The broader or "umbrella" term is SLD.

SLD is defined in the IDEA (federal law) to INCLUDE dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, and other named LDs.

Therefore, dyslexia IS "more specific" than SLD, in the same way that "purple" is more specific than "colors."

The specific term (purple; dyslexia) is one type of the broader term (colors; SLD).

While all purple is a color, not all colors are purple.

While all dyslexia is an SLD, not all SLDs are dyslexia.

If what you are really saying is that, so long as you get effective intervention for your daughter's dyslexia, you don't care WHAT they call it, I understand and sympathize. But the diagnosis can become very important, if not now, then later, when she needs accommodations on the SAT (the College Board is very hostile to kids with LD) or when she seeks accommodations in college. As she ages, she will need to know her "real" diagnosis so she educate herself about the condition. That way, she will better understand herself, her strengths, and her learning needs. She can become her own advocate.

For the present, she is lucky to have you as her advocate. You sound dedicated to making sure your child gets what she needs. Atta girl!

Actually, the term dyslexia, is no more specific than "specific learning disability". A rose by any other name, would smell as sweet. Thus, I'm less concerned with what my daugher's school CALL the disability. I ask only that they have her tested and provide appropriate, proven methods to remediate her issues.
Without ever calling her dyslexic (at least on paper), her school district is reimbursing for tuition at a private LD school. But only because I PUSHED to make it happen. Did pushing the school cause harm to my daugher? Hardly. For the first time she was proud of herself and her schoolwork.... her social skills have improved so dramatically, she struggles to accomodate time with her friends. While I can't in all honesty say she is jumping for joy that school is starting again, she is not showing any signs of anxiety or stress. She is genuinely happy.
The problem with many schools is that it is not that they don't know what to do... it is that they choose not to do what is needed due to costs. Thus, parents aren't necessarily teaching them about your child's disability, it is showing them that you won't let them continue to fail your child.
I don't really CARE what the school thinks of me.

To Buckaroo; yes what you say is absolutely true but as Alreading points out that a specific learning disability is a meaningless phrase, as is a language-based disorder that is often used in Canada's provinces. Schools that choose these labels instead of dyslexia, are the very students who fall under the mild to moderate categories, which is the largest sub-group of LD students and more than likely dyslexic. I believe a parent should be aware of this knowledge, and use it to their best ability to advocate for their child. To try to force the school to do the right thing because it is the law, may do more harm to the family and their children.
There is plenty of laws being enacted in both countries, but it does not mean the majority of people will follow the law, and usually what happens the courts must make examples before voluntary enforcement occurs. A parent has other options, and one of those options is to educate the educators on their children's disability, and to discuss issues of the laws that will impact the child and how the laws are reflected in the school's special education policy. Parents need not only to learn, but to ask the right questions. By asking the right questions, hopefully schools will start to change their ways. A good start would be that label specific learning disability.
I am looking forward to the new school year, to employ all that I have learned over the summer time from the Great School site to the Wrightslaw site. One of my goals is to have my child labeled as dyslexic and hopefully it might be easier to get the right programs and accommodations that are a good fit for my child.

lovinmom,
Dyslexia is recognized as a disability in ALL the states because it is specifically mentioned in IDEA. Most states, except for Texas, call it a "specific learning disability". In any event, they HAVE to provide your child FAPE (free appropriate public education). If they have no appropriate program, then they must pay someone else to provide one this IS appropriate.

I went through the same thing last year. I was " unofficially" diagnosed with dyslexia. I took the letter and recomindations to the Principal. I then followed up with the Scottish Rite foundation and went through a days worth of "official testing " . My son was then diagnosed with dyslexia. The school understands now that there is a problem but, can't do much to help him. We live in Al. , where dyslexia isn't recognized as a disabality .

(1) You have encountered a clash of cultures.

The world of physicians, psychologists, and scientists uses the term "dyslexia," which has a precise definition.

Educators, on the other hand, use the non-specific phrase "specific learning disabilities."

Frankly, this is a meaningless phrase. When I hear that phrase, I always ask, "WHICH 'specific' learning disability? It makes a difference to what we do whether we are dealing with dyslexia OR dysgraphia OR dyscalculia OR ADHD, etc." I get blank, uninformed stares in response.

It should be significant to you that DOCTORS use the term "dyslexia," and do not use the term "specific learning disabilities." If the school tells you it "can't" use the term "dyslexia" because it is a medical term, that's a stuff-and-nonsense argument. "Autism" is a medical term. "Blindness" is a medical term. Schools don't refuse to use either term and don't refuse (usually!) to provide needed educational accommodations and interventions to autistic and blind children.

Federal law defines "specific learning disabilities" to include a number of learning disabilities, INCLUDING dyslexia. If federal educational law - which governs ALL public schools - uses the word "dyslexia," why in the world wouldn't an individual school system be able to???

The truth is that most colleges of education have evinced an inexplicable hostility to the scientific and medical research on dyslexia, and have refused to teach their education majors either that research or the multisensory structured language ("MSL") teaching methods which that research shows helps dyslexic students read WELL.

Stick to your guns and use the word "dyslexia." You are astute in recognizing that the diagnosis drives the needed services.

(2) A best-practices psychoeducational evaluation will NEVER involve only a single test. It typically will involve an interview of parents alone; one of the child alone; one of the parents and child together; and then as much as 1.5 days of actual testing, using multiple standardized tests chosen for this specific child's age and possible issues. The report will name all the tests used; the specific scores; the significance of the scores; the diagnosis or diagnoses; SPECIFIC recommendations; and, hopefully, a list of qualified providers in your area.

(3) Although most types of psychologists must have a doctorate, a "school psychologist" may have either a master's degree (M.A. or M.Ed.) or a doctorate (Ph.D.). The latter is the more advanced degree.

Ask anyone who proposes to evaluate your child: how long he/she has been in practice; does his/her practice involve any types of work OTHER THAN this; from which university(s) did he/she get his/her degrees; is he/she a member of the International Dyslexia Association; etc. Since so many children have both dyslexia and ADHD, your local CHADD (ADHD parent support group) will usually be a good source of recommendations for a school psychologist. Also, ask your pediatrician and any speech/language pathologist.

You're being a good advocate. To be the best advocate, read about dyslexia at the website of the non-profit International Dyslexia Association at www.interdys.org and read the parent-friendly book, "Overcoming Dyslexia," by Yale University pediatrician/neuroscientist Dr. Sally Shaywitz. Dr. Shaywitz devotes her life to dyslexia. She wrote this book so parents would have reliable information about how to help their dyslexic children.

(4) You mentioned what your child "sees." It is a common myth that dyslexia involves "seeing things backwards," including letters. This is not true. Dyslexia is NOT a vision disorder; it is a language disorder based not in the eyes but in the brain. If dyslexic kids saw things backwards, they would reach for the doorknob on the wrong side of the door, and they don't. Researchers using functional MRIs have shown that, when attempting to read, the brains of dyslexic kids "light up" (activate) differently than do the brains of non-dyslexic kids. Excitingly, the activation patterns actually normalize after MSL reading instruction.

(5) Your child needs you to help him obtain what he needs and what he is entitled to under federal law. Be strong and assertive. It will make a world of difference in his life.

I just went into my newsletters, I came across apparently IDEA grants that the states can received for software supplements for special education. However, the software purchased using these funds can also be used with other students provided it does not hinder the special eds tudents' access to the software. This information comes from the Merit Software newsletter. However, the software purchased using these funds can also be used with other students provided it does not hinder the special ed students' access to the software.
This is the IDEA site
tinyurl.com/5qnt7g

To LSCegypt: You have given me my first real laugh of the day. I am not laughing at you, but with you. I do agree with you teachers should concentrate on matters of teaching, and leave the law to others. However, more often than not the law is used as a means to say no to the child. As a way to avoid costly reading programs and such. What really is frustrating is that the no never comes with a well-thought reason based on solid data of the child, any research but always comes with this is the law and personal teacher's observations.
Oh, how I wish all teachers could be like you. There would never be the problems that public schools are experiencing in delivery of education and yes, meetings between parents and school staff would become much more civilized with friendly and informative exchanges between all parties at the table.
I think it was you that questioned Blackcat on vision problems being part of dyslexic. The latest research is moving into directions towards breaking down the visual, audio and other factors that are common among the dyslexics. In some dyslexic centres in Canada, children can be taken for testing of these problems. Even my eye doctor has mention it, if the tint and anti-glare is not effective he will send us to a specialist in the city. The medical research in brain disorders including LD has been growing at a fast and rapid pace. It is hard for the common person to keep up with all the advances, but I am sure glad that I do know a little bit about it especially if one of my loved ones had a stroke or had a brain injury. It is also handy to have some of this knowledge when the school uses a reason that is based on medical fact from the 1970s to 1980s, but now has either been disproved or there has been new medical knowledge that changes the old thinking of LD.

I live in the 9th Circuit's jurisdiction (west coast) and since they are viewed as "liberal" (though not entirely true), that is why I was wondering if there if had been taken up by another court. I think the courts keep in mind what another circuit decided, but are not bound by it.

Some Schools are not like this only with dyslexia, they are adversial with ANY and ALL disabilities.


If these schools would just do right and not be adversial , follow the laws, etc there would be no lightning rod to fear.

I just wish that the people who have never 'been there, done that' could, so they can see our (parents) side of this.

Just the same, I wish I could see the teachers side to it. From what I have seen, the teachers are puppets just doing as they are told.

Not ALL, of them, just the ones I have heard and read about and known personally.

I have read about some teachers who are parents of LD kids and they were treated the same as all other parents when trying to get help for their children.

LSCegypt:
Vision and dyslexia are linked and this is why I had gone to a developmental optometrist to figure out why my son was having such a tough time with spelling, reading, reading composition within school.
I had called my sons' pediatrician about him getting tested, but there was no one he could refer me to because no one tested for it because it is a learning disability. I had asked the school about it, but they told me that they did not think it was the problem, and that they did not have the time for it. I found one place in town that tests for dyslexia, but it would cost me over one thousand dollars for all the testing, not including the tutoring my son might need.
Then I found out that my niece was having the same problems as my son, and my sister was taking her to a developmental optometrist. Right away I scheduled an appointment, the developmental optometrist tested my son, and found out that he has visual perception disorder which is a subgroup of dyslexia known as "visual dyslexia". I am also going to get him tested for auditory dyslexia and Dysgraphia and make sure there are no problems there.
Here is further information that covers the subject of vision relating to dyslexia:

www.childrensvision.com/dyslexia.htm

www.children-special-needs.org/parenting/dyslexia_dyslexic.html

www.braintraining.com/visual.htm

www.medicinenet.com/dyslexia/article.htm#2whatcauses

Hope this helps. ^.^

The title of this is "Dyslexia - a forbidden word in our school" with the tone of this board, is it any wonder that the schools are reluctant to take this on (Dyslexia)? This is like a fight looking for a reason to happen. There are obviously some very strong feelings on this issue and it is like a lightning rod!

I love my students parents and I welcome talking with them and working with them. I am saying that not all teachers are bad and that not all schools are bad. I am very vain - my vanity lies with my students making progress. That's what makes me proud, or feel like an idiot. So I do whatever I can to help the student learn. I'll be honest, I have learned a lot, especially in the last few years, about how students learn and what strategies to uses and when. I still have even more to learn though. Teaching has changed a lot in the last few years and it is hard for someone to keep up. Some teachers have been able to keep up more then others. Brain-based research is just now filtering into education programs and was basically unheard of 10 years ago.

Parents and students are not my enemies, they are my partners. I would ask for a heated IEP meeting to be delayed, or ask that we take a short break. My teaching style should not be based upon someone's emotional thoughts. It should be based upon what the student needs and what I can do to help. An IEP is not a bargaining session either. I do what I can to help. I am not against parents knowing the rules and laws either. However, I am a certified SPED teacher, and I know I am not qualified to discuss all of the legalities of SPED rules and laws. That's a full-time job right there! If I had to hand something out that had all of the information, and all of the updated court rulings/administrative rulings, I would not be teaching phonics or anything else. I would have to sit the students at a desk while I studied the laws and edited my handouts. And those laws/rulings change on an almost daily basis. My IEP meetings focus on what are the problems and what are we going to do to address those problems? I am terrible at all of the laws. Could it be that some of those other teachers are the same? If you were the parent of one of my students, I would ask, "Do you want me to be a lawyer for your child or a teacher?" I am good at the teacher part, lousy at the lawyer part. I guess I would have to be fired!

I'm sorry your situation is bad, but the whole world isn't like that. I'm not trying to diminish what has happened to you and your child, or minimize it's effects, but all of the schools, all of the teachers are not bad, evil, opponents! My parents are not my opponents and many teachers feel this way.

I am not sure where the 6th Federal Circuit is, but remember that a decision in one Circuit is not binding on the other Circuit Courts. It is not uncommon for different Circuits to rule differently on similiar issues. And in the 6th Circuit not all of the judges agreed. That is why some issues go to the Supreme Court to be resolved.

''Some have made very broad slams about education and educators. As a teacher, that makes me feel uncomfortable. ''

I know I am very guilty of this, and it's so hard to catch myself. I know the reason for this is because I have rarely had knowledge of school personnel who are right and do what's right, follow the laws, etc.

The only person I know of personally who did this was the school district psych and he was fired 2 weeks after helping me and my child, and fired because he helped me and my child.

I know I should refer to only 'my' school, 'my' teacher, etc and only my personal situation.

But the fact is, I know of MANY MANY instances all over the country, and not just my own.

So I'm not sure how to word this - 'some schools' 'most schools' etc?

Would that be a mandate such as the one that requires the school to provide a reading program for students who are not progressing? If the federal government did not mandate it, would some of the local schools set up a program, or just ignore the problem. I would vote on - some would ignore the problem. Why do schools need even more money to do what they are already supposed to be doing?

Look at the amount of money each public school spends per/child. Then look at a private school's per/child spending, then compare the results. Compare the overall school environment, the level of involvement and decide if this is a money issue or a bureaucracy issue. I love the school choice idea, even if it is just allowing people to choose between public schools. There are bad schools out there, they should be shut down. There are amazing public schools out there, more students should be going to those schools instead. Without choice, you are stuck and you have to hope that you get in a school where most people care. In private schools, if you are a bad teacher, or if the parents are unhappy, the parents can and will go elsewhere. Private schools have to perform or they are out of a job. Public schools don't have to perform. Most do, but those that don't - well nothing happens. With the new NCLB ruling, what happens to those under-performing schools? Probably not much now.

To LSCegypt: Broad Slams? I don't think parents are talking about teachers in this way. It is rather how the teachers, other educators interacts with the parents of children who have a learning problem, even the ones who have not been identified. The system is set up in such a way that promotes the wide divide between parents, teachers and the school and as a result there is a clear line of winners and losers. It is not often, that a child becomes a winner, when parents are sitting inside a room face with the educators but also must deal with outside factors and hidden agendas of board administrators, state and federal policies. Meetings do become heated especially when a parents starts to educate themselves on their child's problems, the rules, regulations and other factors that has affects on the child. Parents start to educate themselves, for one reason only - the school is not communicating effectively to the parent and any questions that parents have are not answered effectively, nor from what I have found to be open and honest answers.
Parents are not passive receptors to receive information only from educators when it comes to our children. When children need help, we look for answers in other places too and those places depend on the life experiences of the parents. If it was left to my child's father, my child would have likely not receive the early intervention of speech therapy at the age of 18 months old. As a mother, I saw a problem much early whereas my husband did not see a problem and it occurred due to different life experiences and different knowledge that we both process. My husband is glad that he lets me do my thing, only because my child as he has said would be in a real pickle without my help. Much of the problems that I feel is that schools do not treat parents as an equal partner. Sometime it entails educating the parents on some aspect of their child, sometimes it is to create an understanding so all can be on the same page and sometimes it is the parents that should be listen to and their warnings heeded. Over the last 7 years, I have learned a lot about teachers, schools, the system and how it all operates to educate the young. The failings of the public education system can be traced back to the 1940s and 1950s or earlier, where children who did badly were expected to leave school or were sent to the opportunity class to learn some type of vocation. Even though a lot has change over the years, the education system is still trying to simplified children's learning problems as easy as they did in the 1940s and 1950s. My child's needs are still not met, because they have tried to apply a simple solution to a complex learning problem. Their answer is to read more, without the intensive reading instruction she needs.
As I have found out, parents have no choice but to educate themselves on matters of teachers and other mundane stuff - otherwise our child might suffer or go without for another year. Even though I should not make comment about a person's ability to practice law - I might be force to if I felt the lawyer that I retained to purchase a house, to carry out his duties including forwarding any taxes owed to the government. After months after the purchase of the house, the tax agency is knocking at my door for payment plus any interest that has accumulated from date of purchase. Wouldn't you start to find out what a lawyer can or cannot do? Ditto for parents who have run into one obstacle after another at the school level!

Does any one know if another court has taken up the issue of unfund federal mandates?

chucknoe,
Well it wouldn't be the first time I've had major disagreement with judges lately. I'm in complete agreement with Judge David McKeague when he said that "school districts had a clear vision of what Congress was offering them by way of NCLB. The districts could take the extra federal money and the corresponding extra duties or not take the money but have fewer duties." Judge McKeage goes on to say that most school districts could not bring themselves to pass upn on the federal funds but hoped something would save them at the end of the road.... and that the majority ruling of the other judges gives the schools a way out, an escape clause. Since they get to choose how to spend the federal moneys, they can reroute monies from a program whenever they determine it might need additional support and call it unfunded and just walk away.... all this WITHOUT returning any federal dollars. What a scam.
Apparently a MAJORITY of judges are out of touch with the real world.

I read the Nasty Email article and found it to be highly appropriate. I loved the response at the bottom where someone had mentioned that the educator had an attention problem, they couldn't focus on the child when they were trying to cool the parent down. I think the Wright's Law site is good, it has things to do, and things not to do. I think both are appropriate.

krusselltus,
Sorry, my mistake. Too many letters & numbers to copy. I added an extra 0. This should work: www.bridges4kids.org/articles/1-08/MIRS1-8-08.html

jdeekdee,
Look at the first blog dated 7/18 "Parent's Nasty Email" & then the one dated 7/2 "School Attorney at IEP Meeting".

The decision that I mentioned is from the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in 1/08 & can be seen at www.bridges4kids.org/articles/1-08/MIRS1-08-08.html

chucknoe - the above does not link to information on the 6th Circuit's decision. Do you know another way to find the decision (the case file number, etc)? Many thanks.

There are a lot of teachers and admin who care. Just like there are a lot of parents who care. In my class, I'll try just about anything to help my students. I've spent a lot of my own money for things like a Smartboard and projector, and have taken numerous classes, and certifications. There are people who care, you just have to find and encourage them to care. Some have made very broad slams about education and educators. As a teacher, that makes me feel uncomfortable. I hope that this kind of attitude is not going on at the IEP meetings. Broad ranging slams really don't help.

'''In the blogs there is a recent posting by Pete Wright about their emphasis on non confrontational approaches.''

I went to the wrightslaw blog and went back to the end of April, and the only entry I found that was similiar to the issue of parents and schools working together was this one --

How Can an IEP Team Work Together if Key Players Won’t “Play”?
www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=45

This blog is not about parents being confrontational, it's about the school being confrontational.

All it states is that when a school does bad things like is mentioned in the story on this blog, parents need to write a 'letter to the stranger' to the school.

I have read somethign about this approach but can't remember it all. It's something about writing a letter to the school like you were writing to a stranger.

If you read the blog more closely, Pete states to write this letter ABOUT this particular meeting, this is not done in this case to help the school/parent relationship, the school has already done the damage.

THe school started this, and I dont' see anything that the parent did wrong to damage the parent/school relationship.

Is there another blog entry you are referring to besides this one?

IF the parents knew the IDEA laws and used them, a lot of this nonsense by the school would have been stopped in it's tracks. Such as asking for PWN and filing state complaints.

I understand what you are saying about teacher disclipline being confidential. But what is happening is
a. teachers are not being discliplined at all or
b. teachers are discliplined and don't care

because all the corruption just continues on!!!

jdeekdee,

You talk about not knowing of any school that did a variety of actions that helped parents. I am sorry that that has been your experience. However, that does not mean that it has not happened.

I did the things that you say are not getting done. Over the years, I have had many parents thank me for being honest & helpful to me. I even had parents from other districts call me, because they had heard that I would be honest with them. I know that there are some others in TX that do this, but I can only be responsible for my own actions.

Buckaroo,
The decision that I mentioned is from the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in 1/08 & can be seen at www.bridges4kids.org/articles/1-08/MIRS1-08-08.html
The first sentence says "A school district does not have to spend state or local money to comply with a federal "No Child Left Behind" (NCLB) requirement that isn't completely paid for with federal money, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled Monday."

If you will do research about the hearings & process that went into the development of NCLB & IDEA 2004, you will find that what I am saying is correct. Research the Response to Intervention concept & the NCLB's emphasis on research based instructional programs. Yyou will see that the intent of these concepts is to meet most struggling students needs with out referral to special ed.

jdeekee,

You miss my point again about confidentiality. As an administrator, if I talked about having disciplined a teacher, the teacher could file a suit against me. That is what I am talking about.

About school attorneys, go to the Wrightslaw main site & click on "Blog" in the upper right corner. In the blogs there is a recent posting by Pete Wright about their emphasis on non confrontational approaches. Then the posting about school attorneys is several postings below that.

I too have some questions, as well as some answers. "Why don't all teachers teach phonics in the regular ed classes?" Well I teach phonics, and am certified, and I find it difficult to teach phonics to 3 students at once, let alone 20 or 30. Phonics is best taught one-on-one or, at worst, two at a time. How can you give feedback when you are teaching 20 students at the same time, not to mention how do you keep track of all those sounds at once? You also get students who are shy, who don't make the sounds and don't like to do that in front of others. Anything besides very basic phonics is not doable in my opinion, and very basic phonics is not enough for a Dyslexic child. I have never seen a study that says it's okay to just do a little phonics/ I've seen intensive phonics mentioned, but never "just a little". That's the problem with elementary phonics in my opinion. It would help the good readers, it might even help the borderline readers, but the ones with moderate to severe Dyslexia, a little bit could be worse then none at all.

My question - theblackcat said that you had your child diagnosed for Dyslexia by an Optometrist. Is that true? I did not know that they could make such a diagnosis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Dyslexia was a processing issue and had nothing to do with vision. That's like a psychiatrist making a diagnosis of cataracts in someone's eyes. I could understand an optometrist making a referral for tests, but how can he/she (optometrist) make a diagnosis?

As for rights, I'm not sure a parent has the absolute right to go into the classroom any time they wish. Personally I would be happy to arrange something and would encourage them to come in if I was lost and didn't know what to do, but I have my class to run and a parent stopping by anytime they wish - well they would be looking for a new teacher. There are other students in my class, and everyone gets attention and help and having a parent entering class whenever would be extremely disruptive. Once my lessons are going, I can't stand interruptions from outsiders. Even my principal/team leader/etc. wait while I am teaching and they joke that I am one of the few who ignore them when they walk in. Same goes for evaluations actually, I just ignore them and do what I normally do. It's kind of the running joke around school that while I am teaching, I am teaching and that is the focus. Like I said, I would be happy to set up a time where they could come in and observe, but it wouldn't be "just whenever".

To Churcknoe: From a Canadian perspective, the IDEA laws are a good concept. The problem is how education is funded in the US. Part of it is funded at the federal level, with the states taking in a major share and the districts also making their contributions, but it is all finance through the tax payers. In Canada, there is no federal involvement in the public education system. Provinces are picking up the tab and it is all finance through tax payers. At each level, there is separate agendas working against each other and as a result IDEA laws are not being enforce as they should be because of lack of funds for training, in some schools resources are badly needed, and reeducation of people who do not think that children who learn differently, should not be entitled to the same education as other normal children, much less being in the same classroom with normal children.
To expect a general teacher to help several LD children in his or her classroom - the teacher needs to be fully trained on aspects of learning styles, understanding the individual strengths and weaknesses of each child and than try to figure out what type of accommodations will work for that child without breaking the budget that the teacher must follow. An example is my child now has an accommodation for hand-out notes for classes where the teacher is carrying out verbal lessons. The teachers at this school, also has a budget for each classroom where each photocopy of worksheets and hand-outs will cost 10 cents each. Once the teacher, goes over the budgeted amount - the teacher cannot continue on, unless another part of the budget funding is remove. For the first month of September, my child will receive note sheets, and after that the odds are against her. Even though, I would be willing to buy a package of paper, plus even give the school a sum of money to cover the other costs to produced the photocopy - I will be turned down since the school act does not permit parents to pay for such things. As a result, another accommodation of many, will once again not be enforce.
I also have issues of not labeling the child in the regular classroom. I have run into this type of thinking in the pass year. My own experience at the school level, the teachers are using it to avoid deeper conversations on a child's learning problems and it is the top reason for getting rid of an accommodation or changing the accommodation to a less effective one. When my child receives top marks, the impact is that her accommodations are change due to parents complaints. When I have gone down to school, to ask why - I am given a reason such as my child can do the work like the other children without accommodations even though the grade is much lower - the best part that she did it on her own just like normal students. When I mentioned the fact that she has a LD label, the response is this " Now, now! We must not label your child, she will start to think that she isn't normal!" Or the other comments, such as your child did so wonderful and she did it without help. I heard that so many times regarding LD written tests, but no one at that school or in the new school will lift a finger on her writing issues. Just like a sick person that needs to know what is wrong, so he or she can deal with it - A LD child needs to know that he or she has LD, so they can deal with it and with help from the adults that surround that child. I lost track of how many times my child has come home, declaring that she does not have learning problems. Sometimes I have let it go, so she can fail the next test which she has always done. It is a hard lesson on her but the teachers it goes right over their head believing that she was not trying hard enough. If I enter into the picture at this time, I will get comments such as maybe my child is only capable of getting this grade, maybe she will never be good in academics or she will get it in time.
Most LD children who are sitting in a regular classroom are in the mild to moderate group. Not only are accommodations needed inside the regular classroom, but interventions that take place outside the classroom to improve their weaknesses such as reading and writing. General teachers are not equipped with the necessary knowledge or the resources to help LD children through interventions.

chucknoe,
I'd be curious to know what court made this decision. I think the government is within its rights to put requirements on funds, even if they were funds that used to not have requirements on them (I'm not advocating NCLB, I'm just saying the government should be able to put stipulations on existing funding and not just on new funding).

And the feds and Congress do NOT say that the best place for special ed kids is in the general ed classroom. Placement is dictated to be the least restrictive environment.
Personally, since non-LD children learn to read just as well using an OG (or other proven multisensory) method, I don't quite understand while general ed teachers don't teach ALL students this way. This would catch so many students (though I realize not all) that would otherwise need to fail markedly before getting appropriate help. (When I tried to explain this to my daughter's previous school's principal, he just looked confused and said "We just don't do that." I glumly told him I was AWARE that they didn't do that and was asking WHY they don't! All I got was "we just don't." So instead, they are now paying for a private LD school for my daughter. And they complain about the school budget being tight this year (I refuse to say a budget CUT because the schools ARE getting more next year than the year before... just not as much of an increase as they were expecting.)

As far as labeling a child... perhaps you should substitute the word DIAGNOSE and you would feel more comfortable. My daughter has been diagnosed (not labeled) with dyslexia and ADD-in. Shouldn't the school want to know of this diagnosis and support her treatment?
Schools deal with the special ed LABEL as it brings in more money... as long as they can get away without providing services.

I also have to agree that schools don't let people know the law. Last year my son was having "behavior problems" in class. The thing is, he was well behaved everywhere else but school. I tried helping in the classroom and tried observing the class so I could pin-point why my son had such bad behavior in class. I was denied my right to be in the classroom, so I stated my parental rights according to the "Parents Rights in California and Federal Law". After touching the implied areas towards my rights that were being violated I was told by the principle "You can not bring the law on school grounds". I was told something similar by my sons' teacher as well, except that she added that it was up to the principle because it is his school, and the law can't help me within school boundaries. When I was faced with these statements, I told them both that the school is on land within the United States, therefore; the law does apply and also asked them if there was a problem with me knowing the laws and my rights, the answer was "no".
Still, I was not aloud to be in the classroom, and the teacher nor the principle could figure out why my son was acting out in class, nor was there any plan of action by which we could figure out why, and when we did create a plan, my husband and I would follow through on our side, but the school would fail to do their part, so nothing progressed, only regressed.
Since they seemed not willing to help our son, we transferred him to a new school which he will be starting this fall, and we got him tested for ADD, and ADHD, which both came up negative. Then we got him tested for dyslexia by a optometrist who specializes in vision disorders, and we found that our son has a visual perception disorder. Because of this, our son can not visualize words in his head, or images while reading, which makes it very difficult for reading, writing, and spelling. Also his peripheral is about half of what is considered "normal", and he also has a problem with eye tracking, so when he is reading, he moves his head back and forth instead of moving his eyes. All of these situations made class very hard and frustrating for him, and is why he was acting out during class. It also explains why he would stand up at his desk while copying things from the board, or even getting up and walking to an appropriate area within the classroom to see the word on the board so he could copy it. All of which, he would get into trouble for because he was "getting out of his seat" or "walking around the classroom during work time", "disrupting the class", and the one that he got into trouble most for, "Defiance".
Now that we know what is going on, I feel so much better, but it is too bad that I was denied my rights and not allowed in the classroom, if I had, I think I would have been able to catch this problem sooner.
And yes, I did write a letter of complaint to the school district.

''The Wrights law site stresses that parents try to work constructively & positively with their schools.'

It also stresses that schools are to work with the parents. It gripes me to no end that schools can lie, cheat, violate laws, hurt children, and on and on with NO repercussions AT ALL,
but then when the PARENT finally realizes what is going on and starts advocating for their child, when they start to learn the IDEA laws and follow them, then it is the PARENT who is the BAD PARENT - label by the school itself.

''They also say that a school attorney being at an IEP meeting can be used to your benefit in many cases.''

Can you elaborate on this, or give links to info on this? I highly highly doubt that ANY school attorney will help the parent becuase they are being paid for by the school with the parents tax dollars.

Oh yea, the only thing I have heard of that a school attorney can be helpful for parents is that the parent can use the attorney as a witness in a due process hearing. When the parent brings this up, the school attorney backs down. I think I read about this on wrightslaw, I can't remember.


therose wrote -- As for the U.S., I do not think there has been much attention on the students who have failed the standard testing.

I haven't been following this, but I do know that instead of schools actually helping the child learn so they CAN pass the state tests, they PAY teh child MONEY to pass the tests. REALLY!!

LSCegypt wrote - I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the schools don't let people know the law.

According to IDEA law, schools are suppose to give the parents their parents rights booklet 'at the time' they ask for an initial eval for sped eligiblity determination.

This RARELY happens.And, the booklet is written in a way that is very hard to understand.

Most parents start this process trusting the school and thinking everything they do and say is right and legal (boy I know I sure did) so they don't really think about the 'laws' at this point.

Especially when schools tell them that they ARE doing things legal and to 'trust them' and they are 'the professionals', they know what's best for the child, and on and on. What a laugh.

The laws are not 'top secret' but the school sure act like they are. They will NEVER tell the parents ' now the next step in the legal sped process is xxx.''

Most times when a school does give the parent the rights booklet, they do not explain it. They just hand it across the table and don't say a word (if they even give it to the parent at all)

For example, I have NEVER heard of ONE school to inform a parent that they can request an IEE if they disagree with the eval that the school does.

I have NEVER heard of a school informing a parent that they (school) has to give the parent PWN when they refuse or disagree with something having to do with the child.

The top US sped lawyer Pete Wright himself says in all his 30 yrs he has NEVER heard of a school giving PWN correctly and legally, and most times they do not give it at all.

I have NEVER heard of a school explain anything about the laws at all in going thru the whole sped process to ANY parent. They only say and do what they want, not caring if they abide by the IDEA law or not.

'' I also think parents should get more involved with this at the school board level. ''

Even though going the school board route is the most effective in getting schools to do right, this doesn't happen nearly as much as it should. And even if the school board DOES make the school straighten up, it will only last for a short while and the school will go right back to their wrongdoing.

'' If the school board is overseeing the district, and things are not going well, why are they still in office? '''

Probably because of the 'gag order' issued to parents when they take schools to court. The parent is ordered to NOT let the corruption of the school be made known publicly. The public does not and can not know what is going on so the school board gets to stay in office.

'''Why are they getting away with this happening in their district? What responsibility does the school board share for allowing this to happen under their watch? According to the voters - not much!''

Boy ain't that the truth! That's what the parents who KNOW about the corruption of special ed in public schools has always thought and wondered about!!

'''I have had several cases where I have had students who have not made the progress they should, and no one knows why, and it's not from the student/parents/teachers/psychologists not trying - they all are, it's just that nobody knows why. '''

And even in cases like these the IEP team is suppose to keep trying, keep using different programs and doing things until the child IS learning. And not to give up just because they 'don't know why' a child is not learning. If school is not sucessful in helping the child, they are to do even more, such as paying for child to go to LD school.


therose wrote --The administrators also count on the fact, that the majority of parents will not take the school to court because of the high costs. That also goes for teachers who buck the system.


It is SO sad and disgusting that schools will go this far. They KNOW there is NO enforcement to make them follow the laws and do right, if there WAS they would not go this far! They KNOW the only 'enforcement' they have is to be told by a hearing officer to do right. Just a slap on the hand.

Schools KNOW that MOST parents can not afford to go this far, so they know they win.

It's disgusting how the very people who are entrusted with OUR most precious possessions, OUR CHILDREN, and our countrys FUTURE, are using OUR MONEY (tax dollars) to do this crap, to go this far to get out of doing the job that WE pay them to do!!
Not to mention hurting the child for life.

I bet if they had to follow the FEDERAL laws like everyone else in the world and get sent to PRISON, they wouldn't be so quick to be so corrupt.


Chucknoe wrote -- Part of the reason that you do not hear about teachers & school staff being disciplined for not following IEP's, etc. is a thing called confidentiality.

As in a 'gag order' for parents who are fortunate enough to take schools to court. These parents are ordered to NOT tell the public the corruption of the schools.
How's THAT for being democratic???

They KNOW that they are so corrupt that if all parents found this out, there would be more outrage from the public and they are trying all they can to keep it hidden. All at the demand of the GOV"T.

#1 there are no NCLB funds. NCLB ties strings to funds (Title 1, ESEA) that schools were already getting. I do not know what impact it had on the NCLB process, but recently a court ruled that schools did not have to comply with NCLB because there was no funding for the law.

The feds & Congress do not see this as violating the law. The law says that students with a disability must have a need for special ed services and the best place for them to be served is the general ed classroom. The idea behind more accessible textbooks & technology & the concept of response to intervention is that the needs of many students with disabilities can & should be met in general ed without having to put a label on the child.

If you read the history behind IDEA 2004, you will see that Congress, as well as others, was concerned about the number of students in special ed & the need to provide more instructional techniques in the general ed classrooms.

''The districts want more money in order to "educate" their students. I ask, without NCLB, what are the schools doing? ''

The same as they are doing with it. Like you said, using it on lavish and personal things. Sounds to me like they are using it the wrong way whether NCLB is in the picture or not.

What are they SUPPOSE to be using the NCLB funds for?? I'm not sure, I don't know how much money it takes for using the same curiculum to teach the same things in the same way (teaching to the test as they say)

'''What administrator is going to give up their assistants and secretaries so they can hire another teacher - none, zero. That's why public schools are in the fix that they are in now. ''


AMEN to that! That, along with many other things.

''For one thing the Feds & the states (& TX for sure) are putting pressure on schools to reduce the # of students in special ed. So it is not just the school administrators trying to protect their staffs.''

I just don't understand how and why it is ok for the feds to violate their OWN laws, IDEA, because this law states that all public schools are to provide sped help for ALL students who need it, under the 'child find' provision. They are to 'find and evaluate' ALL children suspected of having disabilities.

IMO, it's just a corruption racket all the way around.

While the number of administrators & their philosophies do cause problems, it is naive to believe that the situation is that black & white.

For one thing the Feds & the states (& TX for sure) are putting pressure on schools to reduce the # of students in special ed. So it is not just the school administrators trying to protect their staffs.

I'm not sure more funding would help. Public education loves to have fancy buildings with lots of administrative and support staff. I remember Houston Independent School District under Rod Paige used to spend money like crazy. He had country club membership paid for by the school, he would also have lavish luncheons - catered - paid for by the taxpayers. Giving a district more money is just like throwing money out the window. That's why a lot of districts are crying about NCLB. NCLB actually demands that the schools educate the children. The districts want more money in order to "educate" their students. I ask, without NCLB, what are the schools doing? Having SPED students may mean that instead of hundreds of administrators making twice as much as a teacher, there might only be half as many administrators. Administrators like to keep their own jobs, so they hire extra help for themselves. Unfortunately, they forget that the job of a school is to educate children - it's not a source of employment for more administrators. In many schools, non-teaching staff outnumber the teaching staff. How could that be? What's the purpose of a school? This is part of the reason why schools are reluctant to have more students diagnosed, it means either getting more funding (which means hiring even more admin staff) plus a couple of teachers, or it means cutting back in non-teaching areas. What administrator is going to give up their assistants and secretaries so they can hire another teacher - none, zero. That's why public schools are in the fix that they are in now.

I was referring to the stats on standard testing, and how each level of the education system used it to either get more funding or an upper level to deny funding for a particular school. This leads to more teachers teaching to the tests, because of pressure of administrators to have more students pass the testing and this leads to more funds being spent on the testing aspect which leads to less in special education. Never mind the other factors such as parents, new rules that students who have accommodations are not allow to used them at time of testing and so forth.
I believe in standardized testing, but it should not be used as a tool for funding purposes. For the students who failed the test, the school should be using as a good base of hard data to see what kind of interventions can be put in for that student that would help them to perform better. In some cases, as it is with my child it is obvious that it is her written output of a test that should give any educators concern when other parts of the tests have considerably higher scores. Her problems lie in part being a poor reader which leads to having little skills in writing. Yet the education system in the province that I live in, has continued to ignored the results of the CRTs, and her needs are based on observations and grades.
As for the U.S., I do not think there has been much attention on the students who have failed the standard testing. In the province that I live in, the failure rate is about 33 %, with some in the very low levels of a pass rate. If one follows the stat, the graduation rate for the lowest diploma ranges from about 33% to 48 % in the last 10 years. The lowest diploma will not get a student into post-secondary education. Many of the LD students obtain this diploma because of their poor reading and writing skills which were not effectively address in the lower grades.
But of course, in any school that starts to address the needs of low-achieving students, there is a large majority of parents objecting or filing complaints that their high-achieving little Suzies are being neglected.
I just wish, schools uses all available data at their disposal, ditto for school boards and the federal level. Just maybe, funding and resources can be made available on a case to case scenario. One of the major problems in public education is there is not enough money and many schools go without within a system that is always demanding higher standards on fewer resources. Something has to give, sooner or later decision makers must decide is it the football field or teaching little Suzie to read well?

Therose,
You miss several of my points. While there are lots of problems in special ed services, knowledge, etc., I totally disagree that the "dark picture is in special educ." There are so many problems with how general ed programs are run, training of all teachers, state mandated testing, federal & state mandates for schools to deal with nonacademic issues, parents getting upset when their child does not make an athletic or cheerleading team or is not the #1 quarterback, etc.

I know that some schools do the things regarding confidentiality that you mention. But my point was that confidentiality is why not much comes out about staff who were disciplined. You did not address that point at all.

The Wrights law site stresses that parents try to work constructively & positively with their schools. They also say that a school attorney being at an IEP meeting can be used to your benefit in many cases.

Your next to last sentence is hard to follow. "Just look at" what stats in regarding to that sentence?

To Chucknoe; The dark picture is in special educatation. Most parents do not have easy access to lawyers, as schools do. The lawyers are working for and defending the school's position and not the parents. Raising children for the past 30 years, I have seen parents roles change in the education aspect where parents have much less influence towards the direction of their children's education needs. I have seen schools become the unofficial nanny, and directly interfering with the parent-child relationship that often impacts it negatively. Some parents welcome it, most resent it especially those parents who are trying to get help for their child.
As for confidentality rules, I find that schools often employ that tactic to prevent parents from getting outside help. The educators are under tight confidentality rules of talking about their students, parents to outside concerns. Parents have the freedom to pass all reports, even those that are marked confidential to whoever we please to.
The suppose confidentality rules of the school that my child attends, are used to keep parents quiet. As in my case - I got a brow-beating lecture on what a confidential report means. I nodded politely that I understood but meanwhile, I was steaming inside my mind. It certainly did not stop me to continue on my course of bringing important information to outside concerns over my child's learning problems so she can receive the proper help at the school level.
I would not be surprise at the next school meeting, that there is a lawyer present on the school side to conteract the consultant that I have hired to advocate for me and my child.
Public schools that do not have a healthy and more or less equal representations of all social-economic groups - are often the schools that fail to implement the right help for all special needs children, especially those children who have LD. Just look at the stats.

As a retired school administrator I know that there are lots of problems with schools & administrators. However, to paint all or most administrators & schools as falling down on their responsibilities is the same as saying that most parents are not "good" parents.

Part of the reason that you do not hear about teachers & school staff being disciplined for not following IEP's, etc. is a thing called confidentiality. I was involved in & aware of staff being disciplined over the years. I attended many workshops with school attorneys hammering to administrators the importance of implementing the IEP & modifying this when appropriated. This does happen a lot, unfortunately the people posting now do not seem to be aware of this.

FYI there was a general ed teacher in NC or Virginia who was sued several years ago for not implementing required modifications. The teacher lost & had to pay some money. The school attorneys stressed the importance of passing this on to all school staff.

NCLB does require teachers to be "highly qualified". However, because of the shortage of teachers the Dept. of Education allows states to allow schools to hire teachers who are not highly qualified or certified without any penalty. There are requirements to get them certified or highly qualified asap.

To LSCegypt; You have open the door on democratic ideas being pass down to the lower levels of the education system. From the school board down to the schools - is far from being democratic in the day to day operations of running a school or schools. The only think that is democratic, is allowing the citizens to vote on board members, and minor issues at the school level. When the federal arm introduces any new laws regarding education needs of children, it is usually left up to the boards and the schools to interpret the laws and how it will be introduce to the schools. Often it is the poorer schools where parents are not told of the new rules, and if it is, its in language that is above their education. The administrators also count on the fact, that the majority of parents will not take the school to court because of the high costs. That also goes for teachers who buck the system. Where I live, I have not met many parents who have the ability and the skills to tangle with school authorities. I rather attend a tax audit, than dealing with school officials who are defending the status-quo despite the mounting evidence on the other side of hard data that tells the status-quo is not working for this child.
The other side of the coin, is the approach that is taken in education today since the 1970s. The one-sized-fits-all approaches when dealing with curriculum, teaching methodology, environments and other things that directly impacts a child learning may be cost-effective but directly harms the child who learns differently or the child that has other special needs. Over the last few years, the school and the board has defended the one-sized-approaches regarding issues with LD students. Such as my child cannot have audio text books, and other audio material to help her to keep up to the reading that takes place in the classroom because we would have to supply it to every student in her classroom. At least, this is the new reason where the former reason was my child has to learn with the same materials and receive the same instruction as the other children in the classroom. In the fall, I will probably deal with a new reason that will defy logical reasoning on the school's part. I coined a new term for this - creative discrimination. By using these tactics, a school can reasonably be assured that it is only illegal in a court of law. What are the chances of a parent who has issues with a school taking them to court when most parents do not have the ability to handle the costs of a legal suit.
Of course there is other ways, but the appeals process within the education system is set up in such a way, that 9 times out of 10, it will rule in favour for the schools. Parents want independent appeal processes, that will reflect the democratic processes at work treating each issue with fairness with the best interest of the child.
The education systems of North American are no more democratic than the major global companies who operate in a world where few go to jail for breaking laws of the land, yet the poor person who has been caught stealing one of the company's pencils are judged harshly even to the loss of a job.
The education systems may teach democratic ideas to their students, however the systems does not promote the active practice of democracy, whereby open accountability and transparency that are hallmarks of a democracy, are cloaked in darkness.

I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the schools don't let people know the law. While I agree 100 percent that they should actually give the students, and parents, a copy of the laws and rules, the parents do have the right to look up the laws on the internet, contact their state education agency to find the rules, go to the library, etc. I don't think the parents should have to go through that, but it is not a matter of being "Top Secret" and that the parents can never find out the rules. They can find out the information about IDEA and the various state rules if they look - they shouldn't have to, but they can. You said that they don't let the parents know the law. Are you saying that they actively stop the parents from finding out the rules/regulations/laws? Are they censoring the parents internet access, are they censoring their visits to the library, or censoring their calls to the state education agency? That's different then not providing copies of the law to the parents (which I think the schools should do!) and I thought was part of the IEP process. I also think parents should get more involved with this at the school board level. If the school board approves the effective teacher being fired, why is the school board still voted in? That's like congress having an approval rating of 18 percent, yet most get reelected. We get the democracy we deserve! No party has more then 50/60 percent of the body (House or Senate), so it can't be that they just hate the other party - what about the other 40 to 50 percent? If people just hated the "other" party, it should be an approval rating of 50 to 60 percent. If the school board is overseeing the district, and things are not going well, why are they still in office? Why are they getting away with this happening in their district? What responsibility does the school board share for allowing this to happen under their watch? According to the voters - not much!

As to not making progress academically and that it rarely happens, well if it only happens in 1 out of 100 students and a school district has 5,000 students, that means that 50 students are not making progress and no one really knows why. I have had several cases where I have had students who have not made the progress they should, and no one knows why, and it's not from the student/parents/teachers/psychologists not trying - they all are, it's just that nobody knows why. Although research and teaching methods have come a long way, teaching can still be very complicated, and even cutting edge researchers don't know it all. "Rarely" in absolute terms can actually mean a lot of people in terms of actual real life numbers. I would argue that we should keep trying as one never knows what might work tomorrow, teaching is not as "cut and dry" as some people believe. Teaching is kind of a mixture of science, performance, and art that is highly variable and hard to quantify.

I love the discussions and am very glad to see that others are as passionate about learning as I am. Thank you! I know I am not always right and love to read about what others think.

''If the plans (IEP) are not being followed, that's easy - the teacher is in trouble. What about when they are followed and progress is difficult. or nonexistent? ''

Then no one should be blamed. The teacher should not get in trouble for this. In this case the IEP team should follow the IDEA law and change the IEP to reflect something that WILL help the child.

This rarely happens, and The reason this does not happen is that the school KNOWS they will have to pay more money, put more effort into helping the child if they have to change the IEP plan, and they don't want this to happen.

They don't let the parents know the law, which is whatever the teacher is doing has to be changed to somethign that will help the child. And since they dont', of course the parent is sometimes going to think it's the teachers fault for not helping the child learn.

They don't KNOW that by law the IEP team is to change what the teacher is doing to help the child!!


'' If they are not happy, they leave our school, then I have no job. ''

And take their money with them. I just now learned the difference between public and private. If private school does the same crap as public schools, the kids leave and the school loses the money.

The public school gets their money regardless of treating the children and parents wrong.

I read the article on the teacher who was suspended for using The Freedom Writers. There is more to the story then was written. First of all, the book is a fascinating and motivating book and can be useful, but the book is full of some very foul/inappropriate language. Our program showed the movie to High Schoolers, but the language part was removed. That was the administration's problem with the book. There is lots of literature out there that is fascinating, but the content is not appropriate. She was disciplined because she refused to pull the books and use something else. She could have used different materials and the school board would have had no problem with that. If you listen to her talk, she is very much OCD and decides that she is going to do something no matter what anyone says - that's scary! There are other ways to reach kids. I could use Harlequin (spelling?) Romance books, or Penthouse/Playboy/whatever to increase reading, but would they be appropriate - according to this lady the answer is yes because they are reading. There are such things as age/school appropriate materials. The wonderful teacher in Freedom writer used other books and ways to reach the student. This teacher that was suspended should do the same. The administration made a ruling about the books, she went ahead anyway, against their wishes. I would have suspended/fired her as well.

That's kind of scary that no teacher has gotten into trouble for not following an IEP. I would think that their certification could be pulled. I would recommend going through the state education agency (TEA if you live in Texas) if you have exhausted the channels and the teachers are still not following the plan.

I would put some words of caution about teachers being held accountable for students not learning. If the plans (IEP) are not being followed, that's easy - the teacher is in trouble. What about when they are followed and progress is difficult. or nonexistent? Is it then the teacher's fault. I'm not sure I would always say yes. Maybe sometimes, but not always. There are three main, that do not vary, ingredients in learning - the student, the teacher, and the parents and they all have to be mixed up in the right proportions to make an "education cake". The teacher is not the only ingredient, but I will say that they can be very influential and set the tone for learning in the classroom. But still, I am shocked that no teacher has been disciplined for not following the plans - which are legally binding.

That's why I am not teaching in public school. I have some flexibility and the system I work in actually care more about our students then we do about our own stupid pride - although my pride is seeing my students progress, not how I do things. So we try just about anything if we need to, and we go with what works and what we have decided on. Or parents have lots of say and I welcome their input in my classroom. If they are not happy, they leave our school, then I have no job. Worse then that, I feel like I haven't helped - that stinks! So I do what I can. I wish more did, but in my school, they do care a lot. I've also worked at The Monarch School in Houston, Texas and they also care a lot and do whatever they can to help a child progress and learn.

HEy! I found the video of the texas teacher !! --

www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=2784281&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1.1


Here's a story about a teacher who was fired for failing students when the admins wanted her to pass them --

www.matthewktabor.com/2007/04/24/texas-teacher-fired-for-maintaining-grading-standards/

A story on wrightslaw of a teacher who was fired for helping kids , went to court and won 1 million dollars --

www.wrightslaw.com/info/retaliate.settlegoode.htm

teacher fired for causing students to think --

www.courierpress.com/news/2007/mar/02/teacher-calls-loss-of-job-a-mystery/


''More than 370 D.C. teachers will be dismissed Friday because they have failed to produce proof of their certification or evidence that they are trying to obtain a license, school officials said.''

UHHH, weren't they suppose to have their certification BEFORE they got hired ??!?! ---

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR2006062400782.html

Teacher removed from position after whistleblowing the schools IDEA violations --

www.rubberroomreport.com/2008/07/dedicated
-uft-member-kimani-brown-is.html

WHEW!! There's so many that I got tired of looking!!

''' Yet, when I combed through the mountain of cases, I seen no case regarding any teacher being discipline for not being accountable'''

Yep I wrote about that earlier. I have never heard of any teacher getting in trouble for NOT helping children and following IEP plans, etc.
I have only heard of teachers getting in trouble for helping children and following IEP plans.

To Jdeekdee; I search for a while. I found hints on the LD sites, but nothing that would lead me to the story. I did find other items of teachers being fired for everything elses. What really bothers me are the teachers unions, and teacher sites putting out their side of the story, stating that parents are the problem and not the teachers. Yet, when I combed through the mountain of cases, I seen no case regarding any teacher being discipline for not being accountable (at least in part) for teaching children to become good readers and writers for the LD children. In my case, and probably a great deal more - LD children in the public education system are not getting their needs met in reading and writing, which for most is their basic problems.
I keep looking, but this time under video - Texas.

oh my gosh I don't remember! She was talking about it on the local news too. I'm not even sure which city, either. It was a couple of years ago.

To Jdeekdee: Let me find it. I just need to know who is the Texas teacher?

Wow,I don't doubt this a bit. Yes of course this is going on all over the country. If anyone doesnt' believe it all they have to do is a simple searche on the internet.
I wish I could find the story online of the texas sped teacher who was fired for helping the parents.

Article in Newsweek: About a teacher who was fired for trying to help her at-risked students. It made Newsweek - so I am sure this kind of behaviour from administrators is going on everywhere in the public school systems.
tinyurl.com/5przr4

What I did was go to my son's eye doctor, and my husband and I found out that our son has a visual perception disorder.
Here is a website that further describes Visual Perception Disorder:
familyfun.go.com/parenting/learn/assess/feature/dony18learningdisabled/dony18learningdisabled3.html

Hope this helps!

Monica *~

To Jdeekdee: Yes, in this province some tests/exams are made up by the government for specific areas. Standard testing takes place in grade 3, 6 and 9. My child has failed the written part of the standard testing, yet no one at any level have I seen anyone looking at the test as to why this child failed. In order to get another assessment, I had to use not only her written tests, other work plus use the CRTs results to get them to order another assessment. In our province, it is stated that CRT results are to improve education in the classroom. I have seen only more of the same thing, teaching to the good students who are usually the ones who are very good readers and writers. Oh, by the way in grades 3, 6 and 9, this is when the teachers are teaching to the CRT concerning math, LA, French and Science. Another thing, all LD children have their accommodations taken away from them at the time of testing, even though this is against the rules. If things do not change, I am going to have my child write in the written part of LA a short paragraph stating that she cannot write this part because I was not taught how to do it or something like that. Another student who has behaviour issues, and I am not sure if he has learning problem, wrote in the written part two words; ' I'm done' and waited for the correct time to hand it in. He never got into trouble, because I think he is consider not a good student. I bet if a good student did it, there would hell to pay somewhere.

'' If a teacher is teaching to the test, they are totally missing the point and are ethically making a huge mistake. ''

As far as I know,ALL teachers in public US schools do this. Not because they want to, but because they are told to , to make sure the school gets the money.

Like i said, lots of teachers quit, go into private teaching, etc because they have their hands tied in public schools and can not teach the way they feel is best for the students.

From what you are writing, you don't know that this is the norm for US public schools?

Have you ever heard about some schools in USA are paying kids to get good grades and pass the state tests? This was on the news in ATL last year. And they said many schools across the US are doing it.

Some schools cheat and change scores on tests to show they are passing, and some schools don't count the lowest test scores.

On the front page of Yahoo, it stated that schools in GA are doing this with the approval of the GA state dept of education. And in my dealings with the state dept here, I truly believe that.

Have you ever heard about studies and reports were done and showed that part of the reason kids don't like school, have so much stress, find school boring, etc is becuase all they do is study for the state tests and do practice tests all the time?

Schools around here STRONGLY encourage kids to go home and go on their computers and take 'practice' tests at home for the state tests all the time.

My grandson ( and I hear a lot of other kids as well )being 8 yrs old at the time, was scared to death over the state tests and was told the kids will fail if they dont' pass them.

This is true in Texas for 3rd grade, but not true for GA.

'' I actually want my parents to talk to each other. What are the teachers afraid of if the parents talk I wonder?''

It's not the teachers who are afraid, it's the administrators. --

1. They dont' want parents to know what type of sped services a child gets, because other parents will ask for the same help.

2. They don't want parents to learn thru the grapevine how corrupt they are toward parents and children in special ed (or trying to get help thru special ed)

3. They don't want parents to advocate for their child to get help thru special ed.

4. Most, if not all, due process cases that are held when parents take schools to court, the hearing officer issues a 'gag order' to the parents, they can't let anyone know what the school did wrong.

You have shown me a BIG difference between private and public schools, although I have heard of some private schools who are the same as public in the bad things that go on.

therose wrote --We started at 8:30 and ended at 10 minutes pass midnight - both feeling that my child would pass the test.

Are you saying that in Canada they have similiar testing like NCLB testing? In US, this testing has nothing to do with the kids grades. This testing is done to see how well the SCHOOL is teaching, and NOT how well the kids are LEARNING.

I know that in Texas if child doesn't pass state test in 3rd grade, they have to repeat the grade. But I'm not sure about other states.

When my dd was in school I didn't care one cent about the stupid state tests. If she passed she passed, if she didn't, oh well. If this testing was to benefit her in some way, I would have cared and helped her.
I DID help her with trying to understand her work, since she has LD's. I had to help her a LOT since the school wouldn't.

But I can see waht you mean about having to teach what the teacher doesn't teach, the kids have to learn SOMEHOW.

The school fought with me like crazy and wouldn't help my dd with her problems, so I wasn't about to pressure my dd to help them with THEIRS, which was to pass the state tests so they could get more money.
To ()#& with that!!

''I have often found, that teachers seem to be very limited in approaches, methods dealing with LD children ''

In US, reg ed teachers are not taught how to deal with LD's. Many teachers on message boards have stated that they had no training whatsoever on this.

In US, IDEA law states that sped kids are to be in the 'least restrictive environment'. The kids are to be put in reg ed classes with the right help. This is suppose to mean a sped teacher in the room with the reg ed teacher.

But it's not possible since schools have shortage of sped teachers, and the ones they have are stretched to the limit.

So parents and schools are playing tug of war, trying to fight for their own side. It's awful.

Now I'm not defending schools, becuase most I have heard of just outright don't follow IEP plans and help the child even if they do have the means to do so.

To LSCegypt; I have try to talk to other parents who have children that are LD. Apparently, none of these parents know if their child has receive any assessment, much less what is wrong with their child. I don't believe this in a nano-second. They have been told by the school not to talk to other parents and even other family members. I think that they are told by the school about their child's problems but are frightened to discuss any issues with other parents for fear of not getting any help for their child. Another factor that plays into this and the school takes full advantage is that the large percentage of parents do not have an heavy background in schooling. Some are drop-outs, others only went to grade 12, some are single mothers, and so forth. Early on, parents heard about my heated discussions with the school when my child was in grade one. So some were brave enough to ask me how do you tell the teacher that you don't understand at a parent-teacher interview, without looking stupid. I told them, when it happens to me I asked them to repeat it using ordinary language that I am able to understand. Teachers also like to hide behind educational lingo that often goes above any typical parent's background. I was force to learn the lingo, but I really enjoy it when a teacher decides to use educational lingo and are often surprise that I will respond using layman's language and often questions that they cannot or Will not respond to. I was one of those students in high school who would do research and pose a question to teachers who thought they were know-it-alls in their field. I was kick out of class for being a smart-ass, but it is really enjoyable to see their reaction. One reaction you will never get, is the I don't know or that is an interesting question. Of course with the good teachers, they always respond I see that you have been doing some reading and will try to answer it or another comment. But what they won't do is to avoid it. Back to school teachers - I usually see them stumble and fumble looking for an answer that would not stir the pot even further.

To Jdeekdee; I had to respond. Likewise in the province that I live in, teachers must follow a time-table that the government puts out. Often there is not enough time to teach the material, and it becomes the parent's responsibility. I have done lots of re-teaching at home for things that were not taught in any shape or form. The latest example is the unit in basic algebra, where on the eve before the test I had to teach my child all the basics because they spent only 2 1/2 weeks on the unit that should have been at least 4 week long. We started at 8:30 and ended at 10 minutes pass midnight - both feeling that my child would pass the test. She receive the second highest grade, and she would have gotten a perfect grade if she had known how to do an algebra problem with a variable on both sides of the equations. I could have kick myself because I pass over them since none of her work or even the text book have shown problems with variables on both sides. Apparently no other student got the answers, but she and the top student did receive marks for being half right. Over half the class failed that test. Makeup tests appears to be only given when the top performing students receive poor marks. And in all the cases of make-up tests, my child did not have to do the test since her grade was in the high 80s or 90s. I am mainly talking about math tests, but in other subjects where my child has done poorly - I have never receive a phone call to see how it can be improve. It is simply ignored by the school.
I have often found, that teachers seem to be very limited in approaches, methods dealing with LD children that I am convince that either the teachers were sold a bill of goods by the administrators or that they simply do not care or if they do care, it would mean their job is at risk. I once had a retired French teacher who taught my child, who told me to keep on fighting. She wanted to do a lot more with my child and others, but was not permitted by the school. That was the last time, my child receive special intervention inside the classroom on writing issues.

Therose - the parents are discouraged from taking with each other? That is the silliest thing I've ever heard! I'm not doubting you at all, but that is up there on the "moronic scale" for a school to do that. I actually want my parents to talk to each other. What are the teachers afraid of if the parents talk I wonder? If my parents don't like what I'm doing and think I'm doing a lousy job, I can go somewhere else. I have yet to have anything other then a positive parent meeting in the last 4 years. We have had monumental learning challenges, but we agree to work together, I keep them informed, and I ask for their input. I would prefer if they did talk, maybe my students and parents would have more friends that way! You can't ever be friends with too many people!

I have taught in public schools, if you are a good teacher, they (administration) leave your classroom up to you. It doesn't make sense for them to hassle an effective teacher - it's not worth it. The admin has many better things to do then that, not to mention that it would upset the faculty, students, and parents to go after teachers who are very effective and well liked. Like I said, it does not make sense.

I go against the grain sometimes - as you might be able to tell! I don't have a problem with the NCLB in general. It could certainly use some changes here and there, but what couldn't use improvement? If a teacher is teaching to the test, they are totally missing the point and are ethically making a huge mistake. While I agree testing strategies and familiarity with the test are okay to go over, a teacher should not be teaching to the test. Without testing, how do you know where your students are academically? How does one community know they are getting a quality education unless they measure their results against others? Teaching to the test is like taking blood pressure medicine to lower your blood pressure right before you get your blood pressure tested and then convincing yourself you lead an amazingly healthy lifestyle. Sure your blood pressure might go down, but when you stop the medicine, you really aren't helping the underlying problem - too much salt, not enough exercise, etc.

If you cover the curriculum, the students will do even better on the test. The point you made about teaching to a schedule refers to teaching to the "Standards" or "Essential Elements". While these do need to be covered (I covered all of mine last year) people are misinterpreting that to mean that you pull out a worksheet labeled #1 and you progress to #2 and so on until you are done. How boring and how misguided! Many of the standards can be applied to one project so that a project about Westward Expansion may cover Standards in math, science, social studies and language arts. If you were studying for a car repair test, would you do worksheets on car repair, or would you actually get your hands dirty and work on cars and those scenarios? Having to "follow a schedule" is an excuse, and not even a very good one. Like I said, I covered all my 5th grade standards in all subjects, and we had time to review for the last month of school (I figured we needed to review since some of the material went way back to September). I have 2 students who are severely Dsylexic (one with a 70 IQ), 1 who is Autistic, and 4 with ADD or AD/HD and a mixture of processing issues. We did a lot projects, went on 4 field trips, had some free days where we learned about healthy foods, had a book fair, etc. How come we managed to cover everything, yet still have review time? Well I did not spend class times studying for the test. I also only use worksheets for basic drill work or to emphasize strategies. Worksheets are terrible if you are trying to teach/learn from them. Meaningful projects and scenarios are much better. Like when we needed to cover persuasive writing - I had the students write about trying to sell someone an Iphone. For descriptive writing, they wrote about their favorite restaurant. Those were much more fun and the students were actually very effective and very passionate when it was something they actually cared about. We also published a book of poetry through LuLu.com and each student got their own book, plus they donated one to the library in a small ceremony. The looks on their proud faces was priceless. The parents were happy and I saw numerous sets of tears that day. The curriculum can be fun and exciting, if it is made to be.

So how did they do? Well we beat our school average on the math test (and these were students who are supposed to be weak in math. They were 5th graders and they averaged a 6.1 grade level) and we came very close to the school average in Language Arts (dropping the results from my 70 IQ student, we beat the Language Arts scores).

To jdeekdee; In our local schools, parents of special needs are discourage from talking to other parents, and you never will see a parent of a special needs child on some school committee or on the parents council. There is not even a position anywhere to represent the needs of special needs children. I thought of it from time to time, but at the end even if I succeeded to get on the council, I doubt I could influence the parent's council to make changes since the council has only three parent positions and the rest are held by teachers with 2 outside positions representing the community such as the police. Even today, the school council members are totally ignorant of many special needs but what is worse the parents are under a common belief that special needs children just need to try harder in school or the more often comment that somehow it is the parent's fault for their child's needs. I long ago given up on them, but I have try over the years to educate the parents on the more common misconceptions held by others. I still swinging out, and most believe students who are in special education are stupid. It is funny, in my area how children who have special needs especially LD problems are coming from the blue-collared families, and apparently not one from the white-collared professionals. I know it isn't an income problem since my husband's income is almost twice that of a nurse or teacher. It comes down to pecking order. The lowly blue-collared working parents get the shaft. This set of professional parents who are teachers, nurses, and other work that requires an education seem to have all perfect children, with perfect grades and perfect lives. The next time a teacher tells me what they do for their perfect children to overcome learning difficulties at their home - I am going to scream. I feel that there is two systems working here. One for the upper level of the pecking system and another for the lower half of the pecking system. It would not surprise me, if their children did receive timely help for their children's needs based on pecking order. The latest example is a private washroom built for a physical-disabled child at the local high school. No doubt, the washroom was funded by SE funds of the school and now there is very little money left over for the LD children of the school. This could be the reason why there is no reading programs and other effective programs that would target the LD children.

'''I guarantee that a lot of the problems people point to are not the administration, but teachers hiding behind the administration. '''

Hmm, this is not the case in most, if not all, public schools. In all my years of learning about parents, teachers and schools experiences all over the US, the problems that stem from schools not helping children who have learning problems are like I said before,
the admins telling the teachers to do or not to do things to not help children.

Then there are teachers who just don't care and will not follow the childs IEP plan to help a child.

I have never heard of admins discliplining a teacher for NOT following an IEP plan and not helping a child with learning problems,
instead I have ONLY heard of admins that disclipline teachers if they DO help children and follow the IEP plan.
Or what's more, the admins know nothing is being done and just stay quiet about it.


'''If you look at the great teachers at any school, their classroom is different, their style is different, and their students are different. Is that the administration telling those great teachers what to do and what not to do? The answer is this - they do what they know is right and they put forth the effort to make the class a learning environment. That's the difference.'''


You are right. But it IS the administrators who tell even THESE teachers (in public schools) what to do and not to do as far as helping a child with learning problems.

''Teacher quality is one of the most crucial factors of a student's learning in school - it's not the administration.''

True-- so what do you think of NCLB? Even the BEST teacher who has quality teaching skills and just an all around great teacher is squashed when all he/she can do is teach students waht is on the state tests so the school can get money.

I have NEVER heard of a teacher who likes NCLB. Many of them quit teaching because of it. With NCLB, teachers can't teach in the way they want, they can't be creative, they are told what to teach, when to teach, and how to teach.

Some of them have said on message boards that they are on a 'schedule' , they have to teach specific subjects within a specific time period and if a child doesn't 'get it' within that time frame - too bad. The teacher has to move on.

Some teachers say that they DID stop and try to help the child that needed it, but got reprimanded by their admins for not sticking to the 'schedule'.

With NCLB there is no creativity, no individuality,etc.
Teachers have to spoon feed answers to the state tests so the kids can MEMORIZE, and not LEARN the answers, so they can get good scores on the tests so the school can get more money.

My grandson who is going into 4th grade has said for the past 2 yrs that his teachers give him worksheets to 'study', just memorize what is on the sheet. I ask him does the teach explain what it all means and how to find the answers? He said no, she just says memorize what is on the sheet.

I am so thankful I am able to do homeschool, I feel so bad for my 4 grandchildren who have to go to public school. NCLB is raising up a generation that can not think for themselves, can not learn for themselves, they will grow up having to be told what to do, think , and learn, just like they are having to do in schools now.

''I am responsible for the good, I am responsible for the bad, not some administrator in another building. ''

I know it's the teachers responsibility if he/she does the bad things that the admins tell them to do or not do.

But it's a rock in a hard place - you either follow what your boss says and that is to not do your job that you are paid to do, job that you love, OR go ahead and do your job and help children and get fired.

Anyone can say 'oh well just get another job'. But in public schools, this is usually the norm and the teacher will most likely encounter this wherever their job is.

Thank you so much for what you to do help the children. Your school is great and I have never heard of a school that actually helps LD children, legally and correctly, besides LD schools.

The WIAT cannot test for dyslexia. You must take your child to a qualified dyslexia tester (there's a better word for this, somewhere). I teach children with special needs and I've found these two sites to be very informative and helpful.
www.dys-add.com/
www.davisdyslexia.com/faqs.html

If you haven't read, "The Gift of Dyslexia," by Ron Davis, you must!

You are correct. Schools don't test for dyslexia without much pressure from parents at IEP meetings. Get it put into the Evaluation & Assessment Plan on your child's IEP.

Orton-Gillingham based instruction helps children with and without dyslexia. You can do a lot of it at home. Ron Davis gives you STEP by STEP instructions in his book. You can check it out free at your public library or through inter-library-loan (ILL).

Google dyslexia testing centers in your state/area. Try to get the school to pay for it (by putting it in the IEP). If not, contact the center, they may have full or partial scholarships. It would be worthwhile to pay for it yourself if you have to. Some students can receive SSI if their disabilities are severe enough to interfere with daily activities at home and school. Ask your district's special ed supervisor.

Writing help: teach your child to keyboard using a talking typer program www.aph.org/products/tt_bro.html
Good luck!

P.S. Programs like Reading First & Reading Recovery do NOT help children with dyslexia. Your child needs specialized instruction.

You are so right about it boiling down to the teacher. In my original program we learned that the bigger the program, the harder it was to assure quality and see that the children were getting what they needed. The special education kids did have IEP's, yet we knew that significant numbers of students who did not qualify for special education needed explicit phonics. I guess the superintendent instituted this program to help as many students as he could. We measured progress, and had exit standards in place so that once a child improved, he could move out of the remedial approach. Many did by the time they entered high school. As a school based coordinator, I often had trouble getting some teachers to do the phonics even though they knew it was part of the curriculum. In my husband's high school there was one year when only 28% of the regular student body went on to higher education but 76% of our program students did. In any case, the program is gone. There are those of us out there who have continued our O-G training/ certification and are still using those original skills to help children.

Wow! And I complain that I have too many with 7 in the class.

IEP's - we are an accredited school, and we often get students from public schools, as well as we have to present IEP's for students when they enter public school. I believe I have to do an IEP because it helps me plan what we need to do in order to make progress. I have worked in public schools, and while it is much more difficult, teachers still need to speak up and voice their opinions - in a polite way. My students' test scores were actually lower because I gave them no extra help on the test. I wanted to know exactly where they were without any help. With help and lots of accommodations, the scores would have been higher - but then I would not have known what they are truly capable of by themselves. As it was, we showed at least a grade level improvement for each student in my class. Over one grade level improvement doesn't sound like much, but these two students were at a K.7 to 1.5 grade level and they were in my class - 5th grade. My other students managed a 2 to 3 grade level jump, and I was tough on them.

If someone tells me to change a grade, and I did not make a mistake, I would quit before doing so. I am also not going to give students higher grades on assignments and tests then what they actually got. Some teachers do that, but next year's teachers now have to deal with the problem, and that's not fair. No one has told me what to say about a student either - once again I would look for employment elsewhere at a school that really cares if they did.

I work at a wonderful school where we care about the students, but that all has to do with us, the teachers, the students, and the parents. It's not the school that is bad, it's the overall team, or team member(s). I really do feel bad for a lot of parents because our school costs around $30,000 a year, and most parents could not afford that. I just wish we could lower class sizes, require lots of training and development, and work together more and more.

But what is done in the classroom boils down to the teacher. Even at our school we sometimes get a teacher who does not put forth the effort or is just not a good teacher. After encouragement, coaching, mentoring, etc. if they do not improve - well it's time to move on! Teachers are in control of their own classrooms, they need to stop making excuses. I guarantee that a lot of the problems people point to are not the administration, but teachers hiding behind the administration. If you look at the great teachers at any school, their classroom is different, their style is different, and their students are different. Is that the administration telling those great teachers what to do and what not to do? The answer is this - they do what they know is right and they put forth the effort to make the class a learning environment. That's the difference. Teacher quality is one of the most crucial factors of a student's learning in school - it's not the administration. I take pride in my work, and consider myself one of the better teachers (not because of natural ability, but because I love my job, I am constantly learning, and I make changes to my teaching style when I need to make them). Good teachers do not get a lot of flack from administrators I can promise you! Think of sports, do you honestly believe that Michael Jordan is told what to do and what not to do when he played basketball? I am certainly no Michael Jordan of teachers, but I don't get told what to do, they look at how I am doing, how the students are doing, and they say hello/good-bye and leave. I love my administration because they don't get in my way, they advocate for the children, and they are polite hard working people who care a lot. What's that saying, "Move, follow, or get out of the way!". I am moving and my classroom is my classroom. I love feedback, different ways to teach, and am always looking/checking to make sure that we are making progress, but my class is my class. I am responsible for the good, I am responsible for the bad, not some administrator in another building. If the students are not making progress, I need to be seeing that and work toward appropriate changes.

LSCegypt asked what I did with 38 dyslexic students in one class & how I could deal with 100 in a day.
This program was a grand experiment over 30 years ago. It was the product of a school superintendent whose own children were dyslexic and the reading teacher who taught them to read.
In my middle school class, we did the sound symbol association as a class, lots of finger tracing on desks for handwriting, daily work with the six kinds of syllables and the syllable division rules as well as spelling generalizations. We used lots of EPS materials. We worked on learned words which constituted the spelling list each week. We worked incrementally to build writing skills first from a basic declarative sentence to paragraphs, each week adding new increment....adjectives one week, adverbs the next, phrases, clauses, sentence combining...all working up to the basic paragraph and then to the multi-paragraph essay.
The students identified for this program were assessed with a copy-compose-dictate, often given a Slingerland assessment and a combination of standardized test scores. This was for students who were NOT identified as special education students, but who were reading and spelling one or more years below grade level and who demonstrated average or above intelligence. They were not subjected to psychoeducational testing unless the school thought they demonstrated more ability than their standardized testing reflected. All students, county wide, were evaluated in 3rd, 6th and 9th grades for this program. Some Special Ed students did end up in the program but this was originally discouraged because it was felt that parents would not want vast numbers of marginally performing students in such a program if they thought it was "special education."
The materials and teaching methods were O-G based because the initial reading teacher who developed the program was O-G trained. The county did a presentation of its program at an IDA conference in the 1970's in Baltimore MD.
Teachers were trained in house so to speak with a "drive by" type of course in basic O-G. Some teachers became passionate about the program and the children and did more training. This program worked in some schools where the administration supported it and teachers followed the curriculum. In other schools it was resented by both teachers and administrators who found it difficult to schedule or to get teachers to follow.
It included an early intervention model and phonemic awareness for the youngest ones in hope of alleviating later difficulties.
I did have my students for 84 minutes a day five days a week. That was a good chunk of time to work on language skills. Was it perfect? No. Was it a valiant stab at a vexing problem in the days when "whole language" instruction was king? Yes.

Public schools are VERY different than private.
I am a member of many boards and groups like this that deal with LD's in schools, and let me tell you, public schools will shock you.
I have heard it all, things like -
1. Teachers are told to not tell parents if their child has any problems
2. Teachers are told to say the child is lazy, don't care, etc to get the focus off the childs problems so the parents won't ask for help
3. A sped teacher in Texas got fired for telling parents how to get help for their child and about the laws
4. A child was doing an eval to see if they could qualify for sped and child told their parent that they were told the answers to the tests and how to do the eval
5. Teachers are told to change grades on childs work to show there are no problems
6. A parent was banned from school grounds when they tried to get help thru sped for their child
7. Many schools have retalitated against parents, calling child services telling lies to get them in trouble.
8. Many teachers are told what to do, say, act, etc around parents by the admins to get out of helping the child.
9. A parent tied to herself to the school flagpole to protest the school not helping her child with medical problems (child was covered by 504 plan) after the school went to great lengths to retailiate against her and her child.


''I also question those teachers who don't speak up and advocate for their students.''

There are many reasons for this --
1. They are told NOT TO, fear losing their jobs
2. They just do not know and understand learning problems.
3. Some schools are desperate for teachers that they hire teachers without the right qualifications and they just don't know and understand LD kids. (and this is illegal)
4. Some teachers just don't care

'''I don't have any problem speaking my mind when it comes to education when I am speaking with the administration.'''

Have you ever been told not to? Is your school adversial in any way against students and parents of LD kids?

Does your school have to follow the IDEA law and provide IEP plans? I know that private schools do not have to do this *unless* they recieve state and/or federal funding.

Many private schools have told parents that they don't have to provide special ed help at all and some parents found out this was not true.

''I still can't believe that a teacher "can not offer tutoring in the afternoon" because someone in the administration tells them no. I would almost guarantee that this decision was made by the teacher.''

Oh it's true alright!! One reason why this happens is that it will give the parents proof that the child needs help thru special ed. If they don't do tutoring for a child they can say the child is ok and doesn't need it.

Have you ever been to this message board?

www.millermom.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=Education

Have you ever read horror stories on these sites -
www.wrightslaw.com
www.specialedlaw.blog.com
www.mothersfromhell2.org
www.ivillage.com (learning problems message board)
www.schwablearning.org

The schwab message board is no longer active but has all the message in archives. This is the BEST website for things like this. You will truly be shocked.

'' It sounds like some of those "non-tutoring" teachers need to get some guts and do what they know they should do.''

If they do they will lose their jobs.

Wow - I sure wish there was some teachers lilke you at the local schools. When she enters high school, we can look forward to reasons of students should be responsible enough to be able to know where their problems are and work at them from home. I have started to hear reasons like that since grade 6 where the teacher has stated to me you can work with her at home regarding short compostion writing - but the teacher will not look over the work to make suggestions or how she can improve her writing. I had this bright idea that if I give her a story line each week, where she wrote a one-page story and have the teacher look it over each week, making comments and suggestions. What would it take, 5 minutes of his time to look it over? That little experiment failed because if I had the teacher's support, my daughter would have been more willing to do it since demand writing has never been her strong suit.

I work at a private school in the Learning Support Center. I love my job and I love seeing my students make progress even more. I wonder if some teachers honestly are not that excited about their students making progress. I also question those teachers who don't speak up and advocate for their students. I don't have any problem speaking my mind when it comes to education when I am speaking with the administration. If I don't think a student needs full time help, I tell them, if I think a students does need full time help, I tell them. They know they can come to me for honest answers, and I know they listen when I talk to them. In short they have been wonderful and I honestly love working with them. As far as tutoring goes, I still can't believe that a teacher "can not offer tutoring in the afternoon" because someone in the administration tells them no. I would almost guarantee that this decision was made by the teacher. I could tutor whomever I wanted in the afternoon, especially on non-meeting days (Tuesdays). It sounds like some of those "non-tutoring" teachers need to get some guts and do what they know they should do. Teachers' hours include the after school time specifically to catch up on paperwork and provide extra support if their students need it. If not they might as well leave when the students leave - which some teachers would love to do, not all but some.

I really feel for you. When I started to request help from SE services - the same thing happened - beginning at the start of grade 6. I found out later, much later because my child has a mild to moderate LD, she is not entitled to SE services unless she is failing in all core subjects. The general home teachers are suppose to take care of her needs.
From reading, I think in both countries they handle the mild to moderate group much differently from the severe. In the first place, the mild to moderate LD group, the majority can make a passing grade depending on the mix of strengths and weaknesses without SE services. However, it is the mild to moderate group that really suffers in high school when they did not receive the proper help in the lower grades. Of course, we are not going to get the schools to admit this readily. Nor the school boards. The only solution that I can see, is to create a very strong support group at the school concerning all special needs children, and their parents for support and education. The education department in the province has turned this down cold. Another recommendation was an independent appeals process. It was turned down cold. Our province, they would not like to see parents of special needs getting together - sharing stories, ISSPS, accommodations but what they are really afraid of is that parents would become aware of the problems and do something about it. They certainly would not want me informing the parents of rules, new regulations that have been put in place to prevent little Suzie from reading better.
Oh by the way, in the beginning my child would not qualify for a school that has only LD students because she does not have enough problems. She does today, and it is only because interventions did not take place in a timely fashion.

Hey LSCegypt, WOW! You are a WONDERFUL teacher!

Do you work in a public school? If not, I can see how you can do all these things.
If you do, I dont' see how you can do all these things. If you are in public, it surprises and shocks me that you can do all that you are doing. It is wonderful!

If you are in public, how is your district as far as providing services and working with parents?

The teacher my child had wanted to help her, she was really good and did all she knew to do.
At the time all this was going on, I didn't even understand my childs problems so I don't know if the teacher could have done any better or not.

She would call me and write letters and notes, and notes on school work letting me know about my dd's problems. She was really nice. We really worked together.

But as soon as I asked for help thru special ed, everything stopped. No more letters, calls, notes.
Now the work my dd brought home now had the typical teacher lines 'not trying, not paying attention, etc'
instead of 'she didn't understand xxx, or 'I tried to help her with xxx' or 'she needs more help with xxx'.

And, her work started to come home all erased and corrected to show that she had no problems. I would have dd do the work sheets over and she didn't know the answers.

And, the website that the teacher recorded all the grades was mysteriously having grades changed or deleted.

The website then showed that her grades were good. But, none of this work was coming home.
And, the work that did have bad grades was no longer recorded on the website.

I continually wrote to teacher trying to get everything worked out. I told her I did not appreciate being out in the cold like that, why is she no longer working with me, and that I had no idea what to do to help my child at home if she didnt' let me know what the problems were.

Finally I wrote to the principal asking what was going on and included a copy of all the letters I wrote to teacher. I stated this is violating IDEA law because they are preventing me from advocating for my child.

Two days later she called and said she was so sorry that she quit talking to me and that she 'just thought I could read her mind'. Yes, she said this!

I was nice to her on the phone, but she still never answered my questions.
The principal wrote back and said they will address my letters at the upcoming IEP eligibiltity meeting.

Well, guess what? None of the people showed up who was to address my letters!

Not long after this is when I started homeschool and when I told teacher I was pulling her out she said 'I'm so sorry, the admins just wouldn't let me help your child'.

And all this is from a school that is considered the best in the area.

The sounds right thing is working with him. He has a problem with leaving suffixes off of words. " I walk the dog yesterday", etc. When he reads the sentence back, he is not reading the words on the page, instead he is reading what he is thinking. That is one hurdle. He also has a hard time spelling words. I provided him with a spelling dictionary, but he has a hard time finding the word because he cannot spell it. It will take a lot of practice.

The reading program he is in is helping because they do long word decoding. They started with prefixes and suffixes and have moved onto cvccvc and cvcvc combinations. They have explained when to try short and long vowel sounds. He seems to understand this and is doing better with it. I just have to find a way to bridge the gap with him. It is coming, but slowly. I bought the first level of Barton and plan to try this when the pressure is off with the reading program.

Thanks

As to written expression - I think that it is the hardest area to make progress on in school. My worst subject was Language Arts in school because I hated writing. It's an area that I try to work on with my students, and we practice a lot, but I try to provide examples, templates, strategies, organizers and neat things to write about to make this much more meaningful and easy to do experience. I guess I had the most difficulty in school with all of the grammar rules. I could never remember them all, and if I thought of the rules, I couldn't remember or think about what to write. The last study I saw demonstrated that the group that was taught to write without all of the grammar rules, and the group was taught to write with all of the rules, actually did about the same (actually the "no rules" group did slightly better, but not a whole bunch better). I like to use the "does it sound right or make sense?" rule. Most of my students can catch mistakes if they "hear" their own sentence.

Thanks for the information! That's why, at the start of each school year, I do an evaluation of the students, I look at test scores, and I look at previous reports - then I put a plan together stating what we (and I use the term we) need to work on, but I also come up with a plan of how we are going to do this. I go over it with the student, and the parents if they are interested, and I write a note every month detailing progress/lack of progress. I write a report using a template that lists the strategies and remediation tools we are using, but I also comment on how they are working so I can either do more of something that is working, or less/cut out what is not working. This also helps the teacher for next year as they can see what has been working and not working when that student tries to learn so that way we don't have to reinvent the wheel each year. Knowing what's wrong is almost useless if you don't have some plan to fix the challenges. The Schools Attuned format is very good at helping to find weaknesses, and plans of actions to address these weaknesses. The best part of the Schools Attuned Program is that it utilizes the student's strengths to help address the weaknesses.

I can't believe that they would have a student go through tutoring like this. If it is not helping, either change it to address the problem (the helpful thing to do) or just don't do it if it isn't helping and it's wasting time. I would be embarrassed to recommend a student for tutoring, have the student in tutoring, and then have no idea if it's working/not working, or keep them in the program even if something is clearly not meeting their needs. You would think that one of those teachers, somewhere along the line, would say, "Let's stop for a moment. Are we actually accomplishing anything? If not why aren't we changing something?" If the students basic educational needs are not met, test practice is a big waste of time. As a teacher I would rather have the student go enjoy himself/herself than waste their time doing academics that are not helping them at all. At least playing is fun! Tutoring is great if it is helping, but it is a burden that I don't like to place on my students unless there is no other choice. What you went through sounds like a big waste of time for your child.

By far the worst thing you described is the teachers and school not responding to you. Someone should be fired! You don't have to always agree on everything, but you do have to respond to reasonable requests. I think of us as a team - me, the student, and the parents. I welcome their input. Sometimes it might take me a couple of days, but I always respond to the parents, how else will they want to work with me?

Our school had some morning "tutoring" too. It wasn't called that, but it was more for the emergent readers. My nephew (dyslexic) attended, but it didn't him either. His after school tutor, who was paid by his parents, is the one who helped him. He would get spelling papers, etc back that had things marked correct, when they were incorrect, just so his grades would not look bad. And they would rave about how well he was doing. His teacher had 24 students and the principal said that she is all things to all kids, meaning that any type of problems her kids had, she could help them. I just don't understand that.

My son qualified for LD and has an IEP. What they are doing has helped him, but he still needs extensive help with written expression. His tutor is helping in those areas. He has 2 weeks left in the reading program with the Clemson Extension and then I will be helping him with Barton. He has lots of homework, which we do daily. They will not see regression when he goes back to school like they will in some of the others.

'''So, I have been on my own and there is really no support coming from the school regarding what is being done at home. '''

But then they want you to support at home what is being done at school. Hmm..


Our school offered after school tutoring when my dd went there.
They sent home a letter - 'congratulations, your child qualifies for after school tutoring program'.
No qualification requirements were listed, no reasons why she qualified were listed, nothing.

At the time I didn't think anything of it. I was just glad that she could get this help because she had always had learning problems and at this point I didn't know the illegal things the school was doing to get out of helping her thru special ed.

The kids stayed for tutoring either mon and wed or tue and thu, one hour each day.
LOTS of kids went for this tutoring. They were all together when parents picked them up, so I saw how many there were.

After 2 1/2 yrs in this program, she was not progressing at all. I did not question anything in all this time because the school had told me this was all the help they could give her (besides her being in SST, which was not helping, either)

Yea, right. I finally learned the special ed laws and could see right thru their violations, tactics, etc.

Anyway, like I said, after 2 1/2 yrs she wasnt' progressing. This was the time I was on the schwab board and members there were telling me what to do, that I didn't know I could do.

They told me to write a letter to her reg ed teacher asking questions such as --
a. which of my childs learning problems are being addressed in this tutoring?
b. What is being done to help her?
c. Can I get progress reports of this tutoring?
d. Waht are the qualifications to be able to get this tutoring?

No reply from teacher. A week later, I sent same letter to afterschool tutor. No reply. A few days later I sent a copy of letter to the director of this afterschool tutoring (which is also the asst. principal) stating that I wanted to know the answers to my questions.

She actually wrote back and put this in writing 'I have no information about this program. you will have to ask the SST coordinator'. Really!! The DIRECTOR has no information on their own program!

Anyway, I wrote to SST coordinator asking all these things and sent a copy of directors letter. No reply.

A week after this they finally held an SST meeting (after a year and a half of my dd being in SST with NO meetings at all) I give a copy of my letter to the SST coordinator again , she was in the meeting.

You should have seen them blunder around. My dd's reg ed teacher said the after school tutoring is helping her problems. I said 'which problems'? She said 'the same problems you see' and I said ''which are''? She got quiet.

I should have said why didn't you say this when I first asked you, but I didn't.

The room went round and round arguing like crazy with each other and i sat back and elbowed my hubby, laughing and said 'see, see what did I tell you?'

Finally, the SST director said 'this tutoring program is NOT to help children with their specific problems. It is to help children who are failing the state testing'.

The others in the meeting looked like they were going to kill her.

I said 'oh, so I see. Yall have fought with me all this time, over 2 yrs, to not help her with her problems, you 'disguise' this tutor program making everyone THINK it IS to help with childrens problems, the parents who pick up their children talk about this and think this is what is happening.

'I want her out of this tutoring immediately becuase if you are not going to help her with her problems, she is not going to help you with YOURS'.

(which was to help kids to pass the tests so the school can GET MORE MONEY)

I went back and told all the parents about this, but I'm not sure what happened for them and their children.

I just wanted to let you know my story so you and others here can be aware of schools so called 'tutoring ' programs, and to make sure it is what they want you to think it is.

I wish that the teachers would - but I keep hearing the same old refrain - " That children must have the same material as all others." or "If you feel that there is a problem, you can do it at home". If the high school ever provide it, you can be sure it will tied up to conditions and somehow my child would not qualify. Attempting to purchase materials through the school board is a no-no. So, I have been on my own and there is really no support coming from the school regarding what is being done at home.
So, come in the fall - whatever will happen and if they do turned me down - I won't give up on my child.

I am totally shocked that your school does not offer at least some after school tutoring. I am a 5th grade teacher, but I know our upper Junior High and Lower High School LD teachers would tutor in phonics after school. I would tutor after school in phonics if a student came up to me and asked, and I can't even stand high school students! That's why I am shocked.

For fluency, Concept phonics has some really good supplements to go right along with O-G Phonics. I also noticed that Wilson has some fluency materials.

Concept Phonics can be found at

www.oxtonhouse.com

It is recommended in the book "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Dr. Sally Shaywitz. The fluency drills do work!

In the world that I live in, my child has never qualified for a tutor from the school. Now entering into high school, she still does not qualify for one, due to her grades. What tutoring that is supply inside the school is for all students and it takes place at lunch time. Plus it is in math only. Now that she is entering into high school, she can go to the homework centre at the youth centre but again it is a waste of time for her and other students who have learning problems for two reasons. One, the instructors are older students who have no knowledge of LD, much less how they think. Two, there is no help regarding building skills in reading and writing. As for retired teachers, I tried that route several times. The problem is no one even called, even though I was offering $30.00 plus per session depending on experience. Another factor is living in a rural area, where there is no private services within a 200K radius. As a result, I had to take this on as a parent to help my child.
Even though the mission statements and mandates of each level all state in generic terms that all children will reach their full potential; the sad reality is the LD children are being neglected in favour of children who have no learning problems. I have observed children whose grade average dropped from a 95 % to a 86 %, to received tutoring services, but no one seems to bother with the children who are having difficulty in writing, reading and math.
Yes, the SE teachers are qualify to instruct the Orton-Gillingham method. The problem is, most children are only instructed for a few years, depending on the problems. Their is only one reading program and it is a Canadian one called SMT. It is a well respected program but the schools have not kept up with the updates over the years and are still using primary material to instruct older students. I talked to the developers in Ottawa, who have always updated their programs and now it includes fluency. I believe schools should have at least 3 reading programs, but our local schools only offer one. Due to the rules and regulations, it is left up to the individual schools as to what reading programs, the funding of the programs, the training with very little input from the above levels of the education system.
Hence, that is why I have hired a consultant to help me, because I only have a small window to operate in before my child exerts her independence. If I have to, as a parent I will become qualify for an OGM program. If I do it, my child would be home school for the next couple of years to build up her reading and writing skills and other necessary skills needed so she can become an independent learner.
This summer, I am spending a lot of time on the LD cites, chat lines, reading research papers to prepare myself for whatever the future will bring.
This is why, I love it when teachers speak out on the LD chat lines and other education lines. I have learned so much, and this summer I now know what makes a good teacher from people like you.

Thanks. I see the short term benefits, but as a teacher, it is harder to see the long term results as you don't see the students around anymore. I just want to make sure that I am not "dropping the ball" and missing something or doing something that isn't helping.

Getting help is not easy. Does your school offer after school tutoring? We offer it and invite the students to come in to get extra help (we even require it for some). Even a few days a week of tutoring could be helpful if you can snag a teacher to tutor. They should be available (the teachers) as I know we have days where we are supposed to be available for tutoring if the students need it/parents want it. Are there no O-G qualified/trained/certified teachers at the school?

I am too, one of those students but I came from the 1960s. The provincial education system started to experiment with students who had learning problems in the setting of a regular classroom. I never knew I had LD all these years, until my youngest. When I went to investigate what kind of help would be suitable, I discovered the Orton-Gillingham method. Memories came flooding back. Memories of being pulled out of the class, trying to teach me my sounds, special hand-out sheets that only I would receive, and summer time spent at the kitchen table learning sounds, grammar and other things that would help me to write better. By grade 5, I was no longer pull out of the classroom but other work was provided to constantly improve in language. This carry on until I was 17, but each year it was less and less. I was always assess at least once a year, and I would get work to practice on whatever these assessments called for. I know today, I would be consider a dyslexic but back in those days LD or dyslexia was not even on the radar in most education systems. What is funny, the adults around me would give me literature about famous people. All the famous people were dyslexics. Yet no one every told me I had LD or I was a dyslexic. So LSCegypt, long terms effects do occur and I am one of them. I just wish my child would be receiving half of what I receive before grade 7 - she would be a better reader and writer today.

i have the experience of using a window for reading for dyslexic children it is made of chart paper and yellow cellophane paper which works wonderswith these kids. as therose has ideintified the colour yellow helps these children in reading better.

Thanks for the info. It's so easy to get caught up in the short term. I am just wanting to make sure that I am actually doing some good in the long term.

I am on a crusade at my school to have phonics taught as a base to build upon , but it has been difficult. Most of the teachers only use phonics in a cursory way - which leaves Dyslexics out in the cold (and many others I would argue).

If I may ask, what did you do in your class of 38 dyslexics? That sounds like an incredibly large number of students in that class! How did you teach phonics to 38 students in that one class or 100 in one day? I am having difficulty doing intensive phonics with 4 students a day!

Seen the long term effects?
Yes, I have seen the long term effects of phonics (O-G based) instruction over time. I still am in contact with students I taught in the 1970's in a public school ---yes I said public school---O-G program. (Now disbanded and so I work privately.) I was originally trained in O-G methods as a public school teacher, trained by my county and placed in a public school.
I had those children who would normally slip through the cracks as well as those who were profoundly dyslexic. One year I had 38 dyslexic 8th graders in one class before and after lunch. Some students were reading 4 to 6 years below grade level. My dyslexic students often went on to mainstream, even gifted classes at the high school. When they asked why they had to write a composition every week where as the GT classes only had to write one a semester, my response was, "because you are worth it." I was teaching in a public school when I was photographed for a national magazine article on dyslexia in the 1980's...8th grade boys doing handwriting with finger paint. I taught over 100 students a day in a public middle school and then high school in an O-G program.
I also have O-G trained students who have made the dean's list at major universities, have become successful artists, photographers, business execs, technical professionals, successful college students...independent, happy adults. My greatest gift is when a student says, "I don't need you any more."
I have done this work for over 30 years and have seen first hand what happens when a student gets "definition," a sense of who he or she is...how he or she learns...and applies multisensory strategies to learning everything. I currently teach multisensory study skills for those who learn differently and I am nationally certified to teach O-G based language and reading though I prefer being the bridge that takes them from O-G phonics to content instruction and college. I have successful students who can read and write, write term papers, pass tests (just like everyone else) pass college algebra, Spanish, English composition and a multitude of other subjects. They advocate for themselves. They use accommodations, but they also master the same content as other college students.
Our local LDA branch recently had a panel discussion of successful dyslexic adults. Parents brought even young students to hear these young adults describe what they had done to succeed, what they had suffered before they learned how to learn. They talked about their struggles, their triumphs and failures. Some even found themselves pursuing careers in what had previously been their areas of greatest challenge. Was it always easy? No. Were the skills worth the effort to acquire? Yes.
I have taught, perhaps over one thousand dyslexics over the years. There is no level of difficulty I have not seen, no reading or spelling or handwriting deficit I have not witnessed, no challenge in math I have not worked to overcome. As Mel Levine says, sometimes it takes one charismatic adult in the life of a child, one adult who believes in that child, who says I will not give up.
It is not unusual for me to work with older students who have had no help in the public or private schools, or who have had poor instruction with well intentioned but unqualified tutors. It is these talented and unique learners I cherish the most. This is a necessary rewarding work, but they teach me more than I ever teach them. They give me everything that makes me who I am. It is a rewarding career and worth every penny and hour spent to become properly trained to provide diagnostic prescriptive teaching. Soap box closed.

There is LED lighting systems that produce a natural light. Right now, it comes in the form of christmas tree lights, and for other small light products. There is very little of this is houses and buildings. It can be done, and boy do you save a lot on your hydro bill. They do have LED light products for home use but are much more expensive than other light products. One LED light bulb can last 20 years depending on use.
Getting back to the environment of a school's lighting, the schools I went to never had the lights on unless it was a dark rainy day. Most light came from the large windows that were in every classroom. Today, in a lot of schools, there is not a lot of natural light entering into the school and classroom teachers must turn on the lights. I believe people work better when lighting is more natural. Even people with vision problems.

Therose - There is a problem with what you are saying (and you are of course 100 percent correct) it directly conflicts with America's number 1 priority right now - energy and conservation. Being Green. Being green is what the politicians are talking about, not how to best educate our children They talk about funding, but not how to best educate our children. Neon bulbs save lots of energy. They stink as a light source, and do hurt a lot of people's eyes, but that is secondary to our concern of saving the environment and to a lesser extent, energy costs. There is tremendous pressure in our society to recycle and limit - which are great if they are well thought out and actually help (natural lighting maybe) - is saving some money on electricity worth the problems associated with neon bulbs?

Sorry to go on a rant, but people are constantly complaining about wasting energy, but the alternatives are hurtful, they complain about NCLB but offer no alternatives except don't do it, they want more teachers, but refuse to limit sports' share of the money or raise taxes (just you try to limit band's or football's budget and see the parental outrage!). It's incredible! We put in a Republican president, then vote for a Democrat controlled congress (or the reverse when Clinton was in office. Congress has an approval rating of below 10 percent, yet they were all elected to office and most will be reelected). It's almost like we as a society have a secret/genetic predisposition to sabotage. Look at people who seem to be married to the perfect person, only to cheat with a scumbag!

And yes I now feel better!

As a side note. Anyone have any direct experience with the long-term effects (more then a couple of years) of intensive phonics on dyslexia. I don't mean a quote from a book, study, or the advertisement from a phonics program, but actual first or second hand experience? The rewiring of the brain - has anyone actually seen the effects of this happening over the long-term?

When my child was younger, we try out the different colours. What work for her the best was yellow/orange film, to try to stop the words from jumping up at her. She now has glasses for reading. It is a really weak prescription but the real cost is the tint and anti-glare additions that actually helps her to be able to read in a well-lit classroom. Believe it or not, she reads much better in dim lighting, and more so in natural lighting. Just one of her many quirks. I just wish that schools think about their lighting systems that would mimic natural light that would not produce as much eye strain.

There are colored overlays, especially for Irlen Syndrome. The most common overlay that seems to work is blue. It is like a clear plastic sheet, but tinted blue. Some Dyslexics see better with an overlay, but I've not experienced much success for Dyslexic students, and the only success was for a student that had Irlen Syndrome.

The way I see it, give it a try, if it doesn't work, it's only a plastic sheet. Susan Barton phonics sheets come on blue paper and she recommends copying the pages on to blue paper.

have you ever heard of a film that you can put over text and it will make it red? I was talking to a parent yesterday and she told me about it. She said it is for dyslexics and it helps them read better.

Therose - when a teacher tells you the child isn't focusing enough, that should be a big old red flag. A lot of students do not focus. Why, because they do not know what to focus on, they don't know how to focus - especially in the area of reading and writing. Those skills and strategies need to be taught. One of the phrases my students' can say, even before I get the whole sentence out, is, "You need to use your strategies! Point to the words/sounds as you read, ask questions, look for context clues, use your highlighter, ask for help, etc. etc. etc." (I know I used etc more then once, I was trying to emphasize!). The other slogan I use is, "Details, details, details!" when they write. I don't care so much about grammar and spelling, i want details. By the end of the first couple of weeks, they know what they should do and then I can go back and tell them to remember their strategies (which they will quickly say to keep me from annoying them). This has worked really well. I call it "Setting them up for success." I try and set them up in a position where success is easier. Some people like to put up roadblocks, that's setting people up to fail.

Many teachers I know do not teach strategies, or the basics, and assume the students know what to do. My biggest fear is being told to sit in a room with a pencil and paper and be told to write something. Write what? I almost get panic attacks, so I assume that my students are just as confused. That's why we focus on the strategies so much. We also have a lot of fun - We went on several field trips just for them, those who used their strategies (and it was everyone) made gingerbread houses for Christmas. We had several "County-Type Fairs" where we played games to win things such as highlighters, squeeze balls, cool pencils, and pens. Also for Christmas, we did a "Santa Dollars" deal where they got Santa Dollars for every night they read out loud. They cashed in their money for little wooden board games, small decks of cards, stickers, pads of paper, and scratch and sniff stickers. We have healthy snacks days once a month where I bring in all kinds of different fruit and they learn that fruit can actually taste better than potato chips. We also had several pancake breakfasts and talked about the need to eat breakfast. They all are very much into working because it is a positive atmosphere, but they need help in figuring out how to learn. That's our job. I'm not interested in them learning facts, I'm interested in them learning what those facts mean, as well as, where to get those facts.

Buckaroo - Thanks. I do try, often fail, but I do a lot of review and am probably my harshest critic. I have a few pages worth of ways to do things differently this year and a whole bunch of new ideas. I enjoy teaching so to me it's not work, it's fun. Students can see "fun" or "I really hate this job" a mile away. Teachers who don't enjoy teaching think they are fooling their students. They are not fooling anyone.

LSCegypt,
I meant to tell you, you sound like a fantastic teacher! I wish we could clone you! :)

LSCegypt: Thanks for the pep talk. I have also seen the dyslexic signs in her reading and writing over the pass two years, since the school put a stop to her reading program. In the last six months, I have seen signs that I have not seen since the primary grades. Even though I have shown them what the signs are, their response she is not focusing enough, or my favourite - I am doing too much at home, and it is confusing her. I know the problem is with the education system, that allows the front line workers never to take a re-training course after they get their teaching certificate. In this province, this also applies to other professionals such as nurses, doctors, the people who can affect people the most in their lives.
I don't know what will happen in September, but I was told to prepare myself for anything. That includes pulling my child out of school to homeschool her, and take a course so I can have the ability to use a Orton-Gillingham program. I will go that far, because I want her to have the ability by grade 10 to learn independently, and my role can change to a less demanding one where I can work on her organizational skills, guide her how to study, show her the many things that fallen to the wayside because the present demands are far more urgent and that is becoming a good reader and writer.

Oh by the way, I know what a triage nurse does, and I was not making a literal comparison. I also don't do stitches because my sewing is terrible, and I don't like blood. My point was that choices do need to be made, and in the short term, one student may get more time. Like I said, I consciously try to make sure I move myself around and that everyone is progressing, I do have to sometimes focus on one thing or one child. A triage nurse also doesn't necessarily give up on somebody (although they certainly can), someone who needs a couple of stitches is put behind the person having a heart attack. Stitches person isn't forgotten, nor does stitches person get equal time, but they do get helped. I just hope I am being more "even" and challenge my students in the long term.

Therose - I think some, if not most of the fear, jealousy, etc. comes from the misguided notion that giving someone extra time is cheating. While giving someone extra time is cheating if you are running a race, giving someone extra time for an assignment or test is not. I had an argument with another teacher in the Spring about giving extra time. She thought it was unfair. I asked her, "What are we testing? Are we testing to see how fast this student can take a test, or are we wanting to know what he knows?" She replied that it was the "wanting to know what he knows", but then added that giving extra time is not fair to the other students.

Research, and common sense will tell you that you know what you know, giving someone extra time does not increase what they know. I understand how giving one student a calculator, and nothing to others is a little unfair, but I can't remember the last time I took a test and I did not have enough time to finish and check all of my answers. Giving me extra time would not only not help, I would probably have done worse because I would have started second-guessing my answers. I think it is fine to test to see how fast someone processes, then timing does need to be consistent. But that is testing processing speed, not knowledge. Also using things such as a highlighter on the tests, or god-forbid a place to work where you can concentrate, do not increase what you know. But those are fought as well.

My biggest fear for my students is the day they actually go into the regular classroom because I know they will not be given any extra help, extra monitoring, or be allowed to type out assignments, given preview time for new lessons, use a highlighter, or get extra time on tests. One of my favorites now is my students love to use the Smartboard. I have actually scanned in some of the books, and for a Dyslexic and AD/HD student I have, she can stand up and read. It has helped her focus a lot, and she loves using the system.

This summer I got a student who had been in ESL. She is from Korea so they put her in the ESL class - okay fair enough. Then they discovered that she wasn't learning as well as she should, so they recommended her for my intensive phonics class this summer. After 5 minutes I could tell she is severely, and I mean severely Dyslexic. She also has AD/HD. When I was asked about her progress, I asked the ESL teacher if she knew that the student was severely Dyslexic. She had no idea. She then asked me, "What do I do?" I was speechless. The student had been in the classroom for a year, and no one saw that she is severely Dyslexic? The student is very bright and can read, but she takes lots of time, her decoding skills were basically zero at the start of the phonics course, now she can decode a word, but tomorrow acts as if she has never seen that word, she substitutes sounds, or even whole words, there is even the classic "b - d" switcharoo. She was very easily distracted, and you could tell she processed differently. How could you not see the signs? I'm trying to have her moved out of the ESL program, but who knows where that will take me.

To Chucknoe: I do agree with you, with school administrators who could be supporting special education services on a equal footing with regular education. In Canada, the province that I live in - the schools have the ability to choose what reading programs and all too often parents are told there is no money. The school system must fund the special education out of the same pot for regular education. Some schools do a better job than others because the administrators have the sense enough that children with special needs have learning needs that must be met. Others, like the school my child attends - the parents of the top students who have no learning problems are treated much differently from the SE children. The first social studies test, my child and a few others were removed to a quiet room to take the test according to their ISSPs. My child received the second highest mark out of the class. Due to some parents complaining, the children who need extra time were no longer going to the quiet room to write their test. Instead, it was written inside the classroom, along with the other students, when time was up, my child had to whispered to the teacher she needed more time. The children than were moved to an empty classroom and not the quiet room to complete the test. Even sometimes, my child has completed the test two days later, but most times it is 2 to 3 periods later in the day. The parent of top achievers seem to think, that accommodations gives an advantage over the top achievers. As for reading programs, special computer software that would benefit the SE children it is discourage by the parents of top achievers - so fundraising does not take place.
The worse part, living in a small rural area is that my child along with myself are subjected to subtle discrimination, ignorant comments and other social situations that are telling me to back off. In grade 4, my child was being blackmailed by a top achiever. She was stealing her school material, and my child could not get it back until she paid her $2.00. I reported it to the school, at the same time retrieving the blackmail notes from my child's desk. The school claimed they were not sure if it was that child who signed the notes, or another child posing as that child. I phone up the parents, which led to comments such as my child is too smart to blackmail another child, your child is too stupid she is always getting things wrong, and the comments went on. I could not get a word in, until the end which I said neverless, your child did this and it is in her handwriting. His last response, I am going down to the school and when I find out you are lying which I am sure I will, I am going to make sure that you will regret making this phone call. Of course, I never heard from him again and birthday invitations continued even to this day, to come to his child's party,which my child does not attend. The upstanding parent is a larger contributor to the programs that benefit all students. Of course, I never heard back from the school.
It is widely known that I have hired a consultant for the meeting in the fall. The parents who have children that are struggling in school are on one side of the fence. These parents are hoping that I will succeed in opening the door for my child and other LD children. The other side, are parents including the teachers who live in the community stand on the other side. The teachers are shunning me. I can tell you it is very difficult to have my child on the swim team where half the children's parents are teachers. The teachers want me to back away, lose the consultant and than we talk. They do not want that door open for LD students, because than they have to deal with the other side which are mainly composed of parents of good students who have achieved from the beginning of school.
As for the other side, as I go through a typical day I have to deal with this too. At the local grocery story, there is a top achieving student working there. As I was making my purchases, the conversation turned to how their new worker could not tell the difference between a lettuce and a cabbage. The new student worker started to laugh, I can't even tell the difference between a pizza and a frozen T.V. dinner. There was a pregnant pause and she went on to said because she does not eat any of the foods. I walk out at that time, and that is when I rolled my eyes. Everyday it happens, people who do not normally talk to me are talking to me - making silly comments about what their children cannot do. From time to time, I will respond by asking did your child have any delays in the development milestones? It certainly shuts them up. Why are parents so afraid of LD children like my child making advances in her reading ability through a reading program?
To me a school is composed of many facets. In an ideal school, all parts would work together to benefit all students. Sadly, that is not the case for some schools, where often SE often loses out to regular education. This is more so, for schools that are located in rural areas.

LSCegypt I believe that you are an example of a very conscientious teacher & you describe well some of the pressure/issues that such teachers face.

As an ex-special ed. director, I agree with buckaroo & several others that point the finger at the school system & administrators. Conscientious teachers can only do so much. Too many administrators do not push for the training, resources & flexibility that is needed to individualize instruction & provide a variety of programs. One reading program will not work for all struggling readers. Rather than have 1 reading teacher who might know 2-3 reading programs for an entire campus, there should be 2-3 teachers. Money is available somewhere in the district.
Administrators do not push for this for a number of reasons, they do not see it as a priority, they do not want to push their bosses, lack of creativity, etc.

There are leaders who are very creative in using the funds they have & others who are not. Then there is money spent on someone's pet project or to create a job for someone's friend. Schools find/create jobs for weak administrators rather than get rid of them, fire superintendents & head coaches paying them 1-2 years salary to leave. Not even getting into all of the funds spent on athletics (there are schools in TX with football fields with astroturf & super fancy facilities).

Then there are the schools who spend lots of money fighting parents. One of the reasons that I retired was that I told the last school I worked for that they did not have a case to deny a parent what they were asking for. They spent lots of money on special attorneys & wasted hours of staff time. Finally after several months the attorney told the school that they did not have a case. Just what I had been telling them. Not that money alone can solve all problems, but how you spend your funds sets a tone that affects staff & parents & how serious people take certain issues.

buckaroo makes a great point. But we are full circle at the darn word appropriate again. That is were I will leave it. Good day.

The special ed teacher could use the 15 minutes to schedule the two hours of 1:1 time with the student. Or perhaps to request an update of the child's IEP to include the 1:1 time if it wasn't there yet. The triage image is that the child is given up on... something that is not allowed. Free Appropriate Public Education is every child's right.
It is the school's responsibility (the whole school system, not just the teacher) to provide it.

My point is that like nurses the situation represents a classic double bind. A constant state of "double-bind" creates madness they say (that is a joke)! If a child needs two hours of one-on-one help and a teacher has only 15 minutes before the bus shows up, then a teacher is in the situation to best apply those 15 minutes to their best use. I managed very large projects and we always joked that you can't make more time by hiring 9 women to have a baby in a month. So too in education possibly. In the ideal hospital every patient would have a dedicated nurse and doctor, uniquely qualified to deliver the best individualize care. Just like in schools, every child ideally would have a qualified individual teacher. We are far from that and teachers are put in a position to make some choices that are less than ideal. Time is the finite resource and people have high expectations of what children should achieve and increasingly higher expectations of how fast, and painlessly, they should achieve it. The "situation on the ground" is less than ideal. So the challenges are increasingly complex, and the triage metaphore illustrates the notion that trade offs are made everyday for reasons we may not always agree with. The nurse/doctor makes an informed judgement on the spot and we can always say they should have chose differently. In the end they follow guidelines combined with a professional judgement to varying degrees. That is what I meant by using the common triage metaphor.

LSCegypt,
Your idea of what a triage nurse does is innacurate. A triage nurse looks at a group of injured to see who needs the most help and gives that person treatment first. However, if that person is determined to be beyond help, the nurse sets that person aside, and help the next most inured.

Therose - while I understand and agree with what you are saying, it is a fact that it is something like a triage system. I have so many hours in my day. I cannot do everything, so I need to make choices. While I try and make sure that every one of my students is getting help and being challenged, sometimes you have to "pick a patient". I try and even out my time as best as I can, but sometimes one child gets more help (I hope it's only temporary, but still...)

Parents do exactly the same thing. If one of your children needs extra help, you might focus on that child. You try to even it out, but how could you not need to be a triage nurse sometimes! If one of your children is hurt, or got into trouble, you don't pull out your stopwatch and say, "Okay let's switch. Bleeding boy, just sit there. I need to spend a half hour with your brother now."

I do disagree with the idea of just picking the ones you think you can save. That is just plain wrong on so many levels. Who is to say who is most deserving of being saved? I try to help all of my students, but sometimes I feel like I'm in a MASH unit running around working on phonics with this one, reading strategies with that one, social awareness with yet a different one...

I also read the original post and read that the school psychologist made a diagnosis off of the WIAT test. As far as I know, there is not "a test" for Dyslexia. It is a battery of tests and observations, just as one can't make a diagnosis for autism off of one test. Also the use of other students' names on other reports (or plugging in names) is very unprofessional and very likely against HIPA. That kind of report sure doesn't help any! It's kind of like reporting a crime while you are carrying something illegal. You probably won't get listened to, and you'll probably get in trouble.

About the fast part, that is of concern as well. You need to look for patterns and they should be easy to document, but they should be taken over time. One WIAT test, by itself, doesn't tell you much.

To KSKKS: To state, "I often think of teachers working like triage nurses, saving the ones they know they can help with what they have available to them . " , is what parents of LD children often complain about. Using the comparison of a triage nurse is not a very good one to use. Are you saying that children who have difficulty in learning are not worth saving, and there is no need to follow the IEPs when the resources are not there. That parents have high expectations than what the system can deliver. Are parents suppose to sit down remaining passive, accepting that this is the reality while school teachers, school boards scream out loud how wonderful a job they are doing in educating our young to become productive citizens of North America.
Meanwhile, pick up any paper the literacy rate has decrease once more. Scores for math are down once more again, and the educators are meeting once more again to talk about this emerging issue...... Scores of items throughout the years, yet I seen very few headlines where teachers walk off the job for the biggest subgroup of special education and that is the LD children. The latest headline from the Canadian Learning Disability Association is:
STATISTICS CANADA GIVES LDAC RESOLVE TO HELP THOSE WITH LD
Numbers from Stats Can reveal startling truths about learning disabilities in Canada - energizing our staff, board, volunteers and donors to continue to raise funds and spread awareness about Canada’s fastest growing type of disability, not related to aging.
• More than half (59.8%) of children with a physical disability also have a learning disability.
• More children in Canada have an LD than all other types of disabilities combined.
• More than 500,000 Canadian adults live with an LD— increasing the challenge for them in university, college and on the job.
Learning Disabilities Association of Canada

The sad part of this headline, is that the majority would do a lot better if LD children were taught to become good readers.
It is the system, that allows the downloading responsibilities onto the teachers. Being a teacher is a really tough job, but the toughness of the job can be lessen if teachers work as partners with parents, and not see us as public enemy # 1. The teachers' enemy is the system, that allows and forces teachers to decide who is worth saving!

Buckaroo - yes a parent can watch the videos and work with the Barton system (even though the videos are brutal to watch!) But watching a video and actually becoming "trained" or "certified" are different. Phono-Graphix is about 60 hours, Wilson is around 100, I don't know Barton's but I know that it is more than just watching the videos. You can take a 10 hour course for the Wilson Program, but they state on the website and on the application form that you are "not trained in the Wilson system". That training, to say you are trained and can accept tutoring referrals, is the 100 hour course.

''I also agree with everyone 100 percent that the school should be following through on the agreed upon IEP. To me it's a contract and I have given my word. If a teacher or school does not like it, well they should have said something. I'm not afraid to say something, parents appreciate that I care and they listen - just like I listen to their concerns and feedback because I know they care. ''


That's great! What I've been trying to say all along is that parents just want teachers to follow the childs IEP plan and progress should be made. If not, the program listed in the IEP needs to be changed to something that will help the child.

But this whole part of the conversation started because someone here (not sure who) stated to the effect that if the teachers would just do what they are suppose to do in the first place (what is on the IEP plan), a lot of headache and heartbreak can be prevented.

Buckaroo, your DO list is right on

Buckaroo - I was referring to the SPED teacher. While a life skills teacher may have less than 10, but a resource teacher - no. Many Sped teachers are responsible for 20 or more students, not all at the same time, but heck for argument's sake lets say 5 need intensive one-on-one phonics - well you do the math.

I also agree with everyone 100 percent that the school should be following through on the agreed upon IEP. To me it's a contract and I have given my word. If a teacher or school does not like it, well they should have said something. I'm not afraid to say something, parents appreciate that I care and they listen - just like I listen to their concerns and feedback because I know they care.

IDEA law defines FAPE very 'loosely' indeed.

One way that I think would help parents to see if their child is getting this is to go to their states education website and print off the 'state standards'.

Look it over and highlight anything the child has not learned (providing the school has already taught it for that current year)

The LD child should have the same opportunities to at least know the 'standards'.

I mean, all LD kids and reg ed kids alike are suppose to learn and pass the standards, right? Or not?

I haven't used it myself (my research is from their website), but I do believe Barton was designed so that parents could even implement it at home. Thus, training the trainer can't be THAT intense!

Snowflake, it was my pleasure to work with him. My students this last year were the best! They tried harder then I could have ever expected them to, and they deserve all the credit they got for making their progress. My class actually beat the school average in math, and came really close to the average in Language Arts. It's because we worked with an intensive form of phonics, and worked our buns off! I will always remember this class.

Not to nitpick, because I love the conversation and am very appreciative of it, you said there are programs that help and are effective. From my experience you are 100 percent correct. You are also correct in your use of the word programs. There are different approaches, but which one do you use? If you see a 1.1 grade level increase in reading comp, are you satisfied, or do switch programs to go for more? What if you only see a .5 increase. Do you switch? If you switch, you have to go through more training. I think to say you are Wilson trained is 100 hours or more over the course of a year. Barton Phonics takes a long time as well. The reading programs are also even more different. You also get a comfort level with a program. I have seen and used Barton, and I know it is effective, but I prefer Phono-Graphix. If I were to ever switch schools (I hope my principal isn't reading this!), I might very well have to literally go back through the entire training again. Unfortunately, none of the phonics programs accept each others trainings and certifications.

Do you now see how this could be a daunting task for a teacher? I love learning and it is very daunting to me!

LSCegypt,
I don't think most parents of kids with LDs expect the general ed teacher to remediate their child's problems.
They DO want them to know the basic warning signs of a LD and to speak to the parents if these signs appear.
They DO want them to be truthful in their input at IEP meetings and not just say what the principal has dictated.
They DO want them to follow accomodations as laid out in their IEP.
They DO want them to not make their child's LD stand out to classmates that would make social interations with their peers more difficult.

You are right, a general ed teacher shouldn't shoulder the burden. That burden should be on the special education instructors.

jdeekdee
My point is that terms like "decent education", "appropriate education", are just open to so much subjective interpretation. Don't you think?. Then as in the case of NCLB when there is an attempt to define achievment and measure progress everyone says how bad it is to measure things this way or that way. There is just no based line from which to make valid assumptions. I am sorry I offended you in any way. I mentioned the "social work/social services" thing because in my observations and interview, teachers feel underprepared to handle many social service aspects of often associated with managing aspects of disabilities reach far beyond the classroom. Psychology, medication and the like. They are left to assume and hope that is happening outside of school but certainly have little control over medication compliance for example, or whether the child goes to counceling. That is all I meant by that idea.

LSCegypt, It is great that you were able to help this child as diiificult as it was.
Research in programs that are multisensory and emphasize phonemic awareness, before teaching phonics, have also shown much promise and great results.

Snowflake - I had a student last year who was borderline MR and Dyslexic, plus I think he had vision issues, but we never received conclusive tests about it one way or the other. It is extremely hard to get an accurate picture from them Luckily the student I had was an awesome kid who really cared and tried, so we worked together. We did get his reading comp to go up 1.1 grade levels, but it took a lot, and I mean a lot of extra phonics and reading help. It was worth it just to see how happy he was, as well as his mom. I am not worried about his future because he is a very social kid and has a future working with people. Without that skill, I'd be worried sick.

Back to the original post "Dyslexia - a forbidden word in our school"

I can tell you that it almost send shivers down people's spines at our school. Dyslexia is very complicated and if you think that there is 1 approach that works for all - you're wrong. The O-G phonics programs are all taught at least slightly differently. It's not unheard of to have Dyslexia follow right along with AD/HD which sure doesn't help the student who needs extra time to figure things out, but can't sit still to figure them out. I know, I currently have one in our intensive phonics Summer School. The reading programs - well I won't even go there with how different they are. I have been doing lots of research, I've asked a lot of questions, and I've had a lot of experience. It's very complicated, the brain is complicated. You just don't walk in and "teach". if it were that easy a computer could do it, or a common person off of the street would be doing it for less money.

Often times these interventions take years, each teacher may only see the student for 1 year, and the students may still need many of these interventions for life. Some people are acting as if the solution is very simple - just teach them. How? If a teacher has 20 students in the room, how are they going to do an intensive one-on-one phonics program for each of those 20 students? An intensive phonics program is for at least 3 or 4 hours long each day. If you multiply that times the number of students, that equals at least 60 hours. The last time I checked, and I could be wrong, there are only 24 hours in a day. I can tell you from experience that even as many as three students in phonics at a time is too much. How are they going to cover 20? Is it the teacher's fault that there is only one teacher for 20, or 10, or even 5? When did the teachers become responsible for public school hiring? That's why they are afraid. It's a no win situation for some - the students need intensive help, but some have 20 or more students and they can't give that intensive help. Now the parent walks in complaining that the teacher doesn't care because they are not individualizing or providing the help that their child needs. I'm lucky in that I only am responsible for 7 students and I have a wonderful assistant who remembers all of the details for me, but for many teachers, they might be responsible for 20 or more students.

Some of you are right in that some teachers do not really care. But many, many more do care, but don't have the time to do anything about it.

''In my personal experience I am more upset by school administrations who choose to close their eyes and educational politics, than teachers who would do anything to help, but are limited by them.''

BINGO. When I finally got tired of all the schools #)&#(#& and took my child out to homeschool, her teacher said to me 'I am so sorry, the administrators just wouldn't let me help your child.'

'''They did not go to school to work in the delivery of social service. That is called social work. They went to school to learn about the delivery of acadmic content and related social skills required for the orderly delivery of that content. '''

As for my posts, I am not implying that teachers are to be social workers. I don't remember stating anything like that.

You state here that teachers go to school to learn the DELIVERY of the academic content.

I am not asking if teachers learn to be social workers. I am asking if teachers learn to HOW to teach a child with LD's?? As in special ed teachers?

Do they not learn how to know what a child needs for a specific LD? As in a specific program, curiculum, etc? If not, who makes this decision?

'''Yhey need to get back to basics and stop expanding the scope of the teachers role.'''

Parents are not wanting to expand the teachers role. They want the teachers to follow the childs IEP plan and follow the IDEA laws as mandated by federal law.

If the IEP team (both parent AND school) agree on specific programs for the teacher to do to help the child, then everyone on the team is agreeing that the teacher KNOWS what the childs problem is, KNOWS what program to use for the child, and KNOWS how to use it.

If not, then why would the IEP team make this decision to begin with??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the teachers saying in this post that they don't and can't do these things?
If they can't and don't, then who is suppose to?

Why would IDEA law state for teachers to use specialized programs and be highly trained and qualified to use this program, and the teachers turn around and say that can't do this?
Is this what the teachers here are saying? I'm just trying to understand.

If what *I* wrote caused the 'social worker' comment, I'm sorry, I did not imply this at all. All I have ever commented on is that teachers should do what the IDEA law states and follow the childs IEP plan, be trained and qualified in the childs diagnosis and program to be used for that child.

If teachers here are saying they can't do that, then I don't understand? Or, are you saying you can't do something else?


'''Waving the law around still only says "what". The missing component is "how", and how to qualify the select approach with some greater degree of certainty. '''

So you are saying that the IDEA law doesn't state HOW a child with a disability should be taught?

''Teachers I know work to meet the students needs, not throw themselves onto some sword because parents have different, and often unrealistic expectations of what the current system can consistently deliver. '''

What the parents want is for the teachers to follow the childs IEP plan in meeting the childs needs.
We are not wanting outlandish things (most of us anyway) we are wanting what our child is entitled to by law to help him/her learn.
And if schools DID this, (follow the IEP plan) there would be no fighting on either side.

All I can say is that if you do not have a child with an LD and are constantly fighting with schools to follow the laws and do right, then you just don't understand.

I have read messages and been in groups that have members who are teachers AND parents of LD children and they are shocked and horrified when the tables get turned on them.

''Teachers are not the silver bullet to fix their problem with their unfullfilled dreams for their children.''

If you had a chidl with LD's, would you want that childs teacher to say this to YOU??

The parents are not wanting the teacher to fix the unfilled dream for their children, they are wanting their child to have an equal chance to get a decent education.

This is a dream, a right, an opportunity, and a priviledge.

LSCegypt, thaks for being one of the teachers who are trying so hard. Sometimes even the understanding that a child is struggling rather than punishing them or blaming them makes a world of differnce.

I'm intersted in how they would diagnose a child both with dyslexia and borderline MR? I'm very concerend over the fact that accurate tests of ability for dyslexics are not easy to come by. More recent research points to Dyslexia as involving a very specific structure and use of of the brain, although each dylexic is still unique in their own way. Most are unusually bright, but because of the way WISC scores are routinely averaged, they falsely suppress the FSIQ .This is on the instruction sheet of the Wechsler but many schools choose to ignore that fact and use the errant one anyway, which is a tragedy.

Also, not all kids are ready for O-G, either, and some need more basic prepartion, like LIPS.
In my personal experience I am more upset by school administrations who choose to close their eyes and educational politics, than teachers who would do anything to help, but are limited by them.

I find that LSCegypt has touched on some great points. First, the many sacrifices we expect teachers to make, we expect of no other profession. Should garbage men work for free on the weekends to make the world cleaner? I think not. People should not throw trash around is a more reasonable and better solution.

The "how" part of differentiated instruction is far more complex than most parents realize, in my opinion. The full inclusive classrooms compound this complexity on some levels. While many find full inclusion highly desirable, it can result in more and increasingly complex numbers of variables at play in a classroom on your average school day. The IDEA is less than precise regarding implementation, because it uses terms and defintions that are so broad, it is easy for many people to read it many ways. This results in a highly complex system for all stakeholders.

A free and appropriate education can mean so many things, that it is almost meaningless. Does a C student reflect an appropriate education? Appropriate to who, where, why? On and on. Until more research (as in this article) cracks the code and identifies solid definitions with data to support and refine those definitions we are playing a game of semantics. There is only so much teachers can control at one time. I think the schools as the primary mechanism to engineer society should be as a bridge for referals to wrap around services. Schools are spread thin and shallow and are not good at being so many things. Maybe the child needs social skills, work with a psychologist, OT, or any number of related services.The law says "what". The missing component is "how", and how to qualify the selected approach with a degree of certainty. Parents are correct to be concerned, but the level of control they excercise with regards to their children far exceeds the amount a teacher has. Teachers are not the silver bullet to fix their unfullfilled dreams for their children's potential.

I often think of teachers working like triage nurses, saving the ones they know they can help with what they have available to them . When many factors pull together and a child benefits it is what we all hope for and now have come to expect.

''There is no laws like the IDEA laws in the U.S. I would love to have them. Our only recourse to make schools follow assessments, is to sue them.''

Even though we do have IDEA laws, it's the same here. Most times parents have to end up suing the schools to make them do right and follow the IDEA laws.
And lots of times, even this does not work. THere are MANY cases documented in which the parent sued the school and won, and the school did not change at all.

'''That latest from my province teacher's union is the removal of all ISSPs (in the U.S. called IEPs) , for LD students who take all subjects inside the regular classroom with accommodations.'''

This makes me sick. I say this time and time again, it is the teachers who are suppose to teach the children in the way that's best for them, not have closed minds and not even care. This is why they wanted to teach, right? So I wonder why they are doing this?

Talk about a thread that is moving in many directions. I would like to state that I am from Canada, coming from a province that seems to be about 30 years behind when it comes to LD children. There is a few things that I like to be known. There is no laws like the IDEA laws in the U.S. I would love to have them. Our only recourse to make schools follow assessments, is to sue them. There has been recent court rulings, that were in favoured of the school and the school boards. Parents have gone to court, stating that the schools did not provide the right type of help for little Suzie and in a timely fashion. Apparently, from what I have read - my understanding is the schools are not obligated to provide the right type of help for an individual student based on the ability of the school to provide it; such as cost, experience of teachers and so forth. My conclusion is that schools can continue on providing cookie-cutter solutions to the LD students and also to other students such as the autism child.

Even though I have presented information on a sliver plate to teachers, information that is in layman's terms - I still have not been able to open up their minds. Teachers expect children to learn how to be curious, yet I see little evidence of the same curiosity in the teachers that I have dealt with.

Another reason for this, are the powerful teachers' unions in Canada. The teacher union holds a powerful seat and are in a position to heavily influence the outcomes regarding special needs issues. Hence, the systems depending on what province it is - parents have no voice, except for being a yes person and don't ask questions. That latest from my province teacher's union is the removal of all ISSPs (in the U.S. called IEPs) , for LD students who take all subjects inside the regular classroom with accommodations. Furthermore, the students do not have the access to special education resources including the SE teachers. Neither do parents have this option. This group of LD students must relied on the general teachers. As for parents, we are left in a limbo where we are completely reliant on the school's ability and willingness to take care of your child's needs. There is few options for parents to take. One that I have thought of is to allow her to fail. But the school would put her in special education classes using a cookie-cutter approach as they do in the SE classes - my child will be the top performer in these classes but her weaknesses will never improve because of the approaches that are use does not work for her.
There is other problems within the classroom. I believe that the classroom has the greatest impact on LD students. I have just recently came across an article which is an easy read but it really did confirm how teachers can affect an LD student either in a positive or negative ways.
www.teachingld.org/ld_resources/default.htm
The site is called Teaching LD. Scroll down the page, until you see the article called, Thinking About Inclusion and Learning Disabilities: A Teacher's Guide.
At the end, there is a PDF file to download the complete booklet. The article is based on the book called Research on Classroom Ecologies - Implications for the Inclusion of Children with Learning Disabilities. I look up the price, mind you I can't afford it but I believe it should be require reading for all at the teachers' colleges.
For parents who are reading this, download the booklet. If you are like me, you will go through a host of emotions as well as people who are in the education field but all will come to a better understanding of what is happening inside the classroom.

"I also know that in order for teachers to keep their teaching certificate, they are required to get additional training hours. Why doesn't the administration recommend WHAT the teachers should take during the summer for their hours? Example: We are going to send you to ____ to get x hours for Wilson."

How would you feel if your boss told you that during your vacation he/she was sending you to get more training, and to keep your job, you need to get X number of training hours, oh by the way, on your own time and unpaid? Once again. I love learning so it is my "hobby" so I try to learn. It can be very expensive to take classes (mine are now $1000 a credit hour and that's supposed to be cheap). Teachers are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination. A masters degree is going to cost me about $20,000 dollars this year. That's about half of my yearly salary. Do you spend that much in education each year for your job? Oh yeah, I don't get reimbursed for it. A doctorate degree will cost about the same each year, but wil take much longer to complete.

I know that you are not trying to point fingers and all, but being a teacher is not a bed of roses. It's a pain in the neck, and lower back, sometimes. However, that look in a student's eye when they learn something, the students and parents wanting you to be their teacher next year, or that look when they see how much they've improved - well it makes it all worthwhile to me.

"LSCegypt,
This bothers me that teachers do not change the way they teach. What about the days that our kids are not in school because the teachers have executive planning days and meetings?|

We do sometimes have planning days. Why don't we use them. Well...there are meetings, then there are meetings, then there are meetings. Usually the rest of the time is devoted to the "Teaching Idea of the Moment" where everyone is supposed to learn this specific new way to do things or latest regulation that everyone must follow.

You expected your doctor to keep up. I would love to compare my contact time with my students (patients) with a doctor's time with a patient. I have also been prescribed medicine before, by doctors, that has had FDA warnings that have been out for months - Vioxx comes to mind.

If you don't understand why teachers don't easily change, look around. How much do you change? Change is not easy to do. I agree that it should be done, when it should be done, but to say that it bothers you that people don't change, well that bothers me. It's like teachers are expected to be perfect, and everybody else isn't. Well news alert.... teachers are not perfect, parents are not perfect, and students are not perfect.

Teachers do work in teams. When are we supposed to communicate to do this teamwork? I only had 2 periods free a week, I'm sorry but I do not see all of this extra time that you see.

And this is all moot anyway. Teachers do change, teaching methods change, it just takes time. I say again, I am changing and learning, but that's easy to say because I love learning and, the big and, I have the time. Do you bring hours of work home a night?

You seem like one that is not lazy.... I am talking in general... What is the administration doing? I thought that they were in charge of getting these new systems in place. I know it trickles down from the state to the district, then to the schools. (At least that what I have been told) I also know that in order for teachers to keep their teaching certificate, they are required to get additional training hours. Why doesn't the administration recommend WHAT the teachers should take during the summer for their hours? Example: We are going to send you to ____ to get x hours for Wilson.

"I can't understand, so many teachers have said they don't know what to do. But they went to college to learn HOW to do this job, right??"

I have one thing to say - Why haven't Doctors found cures for cancer, diseases, etc. that are 100 percent effective? Isn't that what these researchers went to school for? The human brain is extremely complicated and can adapt itself. While I think teachers could be trying to learn and adapt more ( I certainly try) you are asking them to be perfect. Why don't policemen stop all crime? Isn't that what they went to Police Academy for? What about weather forecasters? Didn't they go to school? Economists?

Learning about teaching methods and doing the latest cutting edge research are not the same thing. I can tell you that we had a a student who was severely dyslexic, is borderline M.R. and he has not responded to intensive phonics and reading instruction with an O-G program. We have conferred with several neuropsychologists who don't know why either. Does that mean we are all stupid and lazy?

LSCegypt,
This bothers me that teachers do not change the way they teach. What about the days that our kids are not in school because the teachers have executive planning days and meetings? I thought that teachers were supposed to change with the times (like I would expect my Dr. to do when medicine changes on a daily basis). Why can't teachers change the way they do things? I know they get in their niche and they write lesson plans, etc, but those can be edited and changed based on new information. I thought teachers worked in teams and shared lessons plans and techniques. What if technology did not change in the schools? What if we were still writing on little chalkboards instead of using smartboards, etc.?

My understanding is that teachers work in teams. I know my son's teacher did last year. There was more than one teacher's name on the newsletters that went out to the parents.

I hate to blister you with my lecture, but if schools and educators want to be #1 and help these students, they have to do the research and use the information they find. Why is the research done if it is not going to be used?

''I don't understand public schools and their unwillingness to #1 find out why the child is not learning as they should be and #2 why they fight the reasons they get when they do ask. To say it's all about funding is very naive''


It's because there is no enforcement to make them follow the laws and do right. Anyone else in the world has to follow federal law or pay fines, go to prison, or both.

The only thing I have ever heard of happening when a school breaks the federal IDEA law is that they are just told to do what they didnt' do. That's it. And most times they still don't.

If they had to go to prison for the bad things they do to hurt children and their future, they might change their tune.

It is in IDEA law that they are suppose to get funding taken away when they do wrong, but I have never heard of this happening.

They can't use 'no money' as an excuse. But most of the time they do. It's illegal, IDEA law states that schools can't use lack of funding as a reason to refuse services.

And, there is a site that shows how much funds schools give BACK to the gov't that they don't use !!! --

www.wrightslaw.com/heath/oped.fed.funds.htm


''I don't think that these schools are vindictive, it's just they don't know how students learn. ''

Well who better than they?? They are the ones who are SUPPOSE to know this stuff, right? THey are the 'experts' as they always tout to the parents.
WHY don't they know? THey of ALL people should know this!!

I don't think not knowing how kids learn is the reason MY school was so vindictive.

Talking about teachers not knowing what a child needs or how to help, isn't this what they went to college to be a special ed teacher for??

I can't understand, so many teachers have said they don't know what to do. But they went to college to learn HOW to do this job, right??


''This only happens at home, since the school does not allow such devices but more importantly the school does not consider she has a problem with reading even though the recommendations of the assessments state otherwise. '''

Have you pursued the school to get this help for her? Did you request PWN when they refused?

This is a very good article and it gives me hope.

I do want to sort of defend my fellow teachers. There is a lot of talk as to why don't these teachers use the research, especially the latest research and apply that to their teaching. My responses would be two things - first scientific research tends to change. What we know about learning flip-flops all over the place and does change over time. At the extreme, this is asking a teacher to totally change his/her style every year/six months/every week. Secondly, when are they supposed to pour through these research databases to pull out these articles and make sense of them? For example, last year I had 3 days where I had no prep periods. The other 2 days I had one prep period. During this time, I need to work on my reports, plan my lessons, clean up and organize my room, organize my teaching materials, communicate with everyone I need to, and go to the bathroom. Prep periods are only about 45 minutes long. When in that time do I pour through the latest research? I don't know how many of you actually read the studies, but they are very complicated and full of jargon and statistics. Some of the writers seem to take joy in using the longest, most arcane words they can think of. Personally, I love to learn so it's kind of a hobby to complete my M. Ed degree and discover more about teaching and learning.

But how many other teachers do that? Wal-Mart was recently busted for having people work off the clock. Do you honestly expect a typical teacher to spend the hours each night and weekend to do this - plus once you see the research, you have to put it into action. O-G training/certification does not just happen. Brain compatible teaching does not just happen. I can't just pick up the Wilson System and learn it along with the students. Where is this time to do this in my 90 minutes of prep time a week?

I know my students are trying, and I really care about them, plus I have the time to devote to reading and thinking, so I don't mind doing all of the extra work - but what about someone with small kids at home. not to mention a spouse with which they might actually like to spend a little time? Do they ignore their own children/spouse so they can devote all of this time to keeping current and learning the newest system? If you want to have more time built into the day to do that, more teachers need to be hired. The public has spoken on that - their answer is no. Here is a great Catch 22, if you have lots of planning times then the public says, "What do those teachers do all day?" If you don't have the time, then they say, "Why don't those teachers keep up with the latest research, pedagogy, etc.?" How many of you take 2 to 3 hours of work home a night , plus the weekends - for free I might add? And people wonder why teachers, especially some of the brightest leave...

Sometimes we need to walk in someone else's shoes for a while. This doesn't excuse the incompetence I am hearing about, but it sure might spread some light on the "stupid, lazy, incompetent teachers who don't keep current."

The brain research has led to many new learning and reading products on the education market. Not only that, for many other afflictions such as autism, stroke patients the brain research has led to new treatment options. Are you aware that the majority of dyslexics have found to have delays in some milestones of development. The most common delay is a speech delay. It is recommended by medical authorities that intervention should take place as soon as possible. My child had intensive speech therapy starting at 18 months old. She also was enrolled in two nursery school programs, to promote language and social skills. At that time, the brain research was not known, so I though the problems were over with. By grade 1, she was struggling once again, but with the written and reading parts. Out of desperation, I put a patch on her left eye, and she learned to read in a dimly lit room. A couple years later, I stumbled onto brain research in the areas of autism and LD. From what I read, the patch on her left eye prevented the right hemisphere from interfering with the left hemisphere which has been found where the reading process takes place. The sad part, even though she began to read, her writing skills were very poor and trying to help her at home, only helped the school to delay assessments. By grade three, she was at a grade 1 level for everything except for reading. Now that she in entering into grade 8 in the fall, her reading fluency, decoding are quickly falling to the wayside, because she did not get the right interventions at the school. Nor is her writing skills good.
I have been using techniques at home to help her, based on the brain research. I have found, if she puts a set of ear phones on, as she is hearing the words - she is following along the text on her MP3 player/flash player; it helps to improve fluency, speed and retention of words that she does not know. This only happens at home, since the school does not allow such devices but more importantly the school does not consider she has a problem with reading even though the recommendations of the assessments state otherwise.
I have approached the teachers on some of the leading research, new techniques and other suggestions to no avail. I really think the schools are not keeping pace with the new developments. At the school level, I have found that teachers seem to lack interest concerning the new developments. Perhaps, they are too busy with other concerns.

chucknoe,
This is an amazing article. Thanks and I recommend everyone on this thread read this one. This suggests current brain research results in data to figure out what works for individual students. Such research is really is needed to deliver on the promise of differentiated instruciton. Teachers need meaningful data to confirm an approach works for a particular student. They really lack the tools as the demand and promise of differentiated instruction is far beyond the tools available to educators and parents.

I found this article that might be of interest to some readers. 'Rewired' Brains Help Children Overcome Dyslexia

Allison M. Heinrichs, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, June 12, 2008

www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/search/s_572313.html

An intensive reading program conducted three years ago in 50 Allegheny County schools permanently "rewired" the brains of dyslexic children, Carnegie Mellon University researchers said.

I agree LSCegypt. In some ways though the teacher AND the student AND the student's family, along with the school need to adapt. In your example, I guess a unbelieveably motivated person would go buy a curriculum in and learn Japanese on their own. An average person would take some classes provided at the school and improve slowly, and others would wait for the teacher to rewrite the book so they could read it. Some teachers would rewrite the book and others would say it was not in their job description which it probably true. Is this then a moral/professional failing of the teacher? Some schools would offer the Japanese lessons and be flexible and others would not. So in the end, the ability of all to adapt seems to be the necessary and often missing component. When you hand the teacher the Japanese and ask if they can read it, what if they answered, "No, what is the best way for me to learn Japanese?" That seems like a more meaningful comparison. Most of us would not know the answer of "how to learn Japanese" just that you need to know it in this creative scenario. So in the end, "what" students, need has little to do with "how" they get there necessarily. Highly adaptable student, parents, and teacher/school who are willing to try different approaches seem more likely to be successful. Regardless of which of the above scenarios you end up in, in the end, learning to adapt and finding the tools to help a student adapt are essential for success in high school and college.

In America, schools are run on an efficiency type approach. 80/20. If you are in the 80 % then the curriculum may fit most of your needs with little manipulation. If you are in the 20% that have unique learning styles and don't fit into the mold, then it becomes someones job to figure out what you need, and then adapt things for you. The issue is "finding out" is not always clear cut and offers few guarantees. We all know students who went undiagnosed or wrongly diagnosed regarding a learning problem. It is not as if a parent or student can tell the teacher exactly what they need. They just know what has not worked in the past and demand satisfaction. That only leaves the teacher about a million possibilities which might work, so I understand when teachers try approaches that have worked on others manifesting similar struggles as a starting point. It is more efficient with regards to the only true limitted resource: time.

So in addtion to the wide variety of disabilities, there are also huge differences in how individual teachers, students, families, and schools adapt to unique learning needs, or see their responsibility with regards to the student's unique requirments. That unfortunately is the human part of the equation and can result in some very inconsistent outcomes for all. On the other hand when all parties adapt to the situation, the students can do very well.

"The student should try harder" is something I here a lot from the regular education teachers. While I agree it might look like some of the students are not trying, and quite frankly some (a small percentage and I am saying only some not all) are probably not. However, when I put a Japanese book in front of the teacher and ask him/her to read, they tell me they can't. I tell them they are not trying hard enough. I usually get "oh yeahs" or grumbles. I'm not dyslexic, but I have to admire those who are and yet they still try to read.

I don't understand public schools and their unwillingness to #1 find out why the child is not learning as they should be and #2 why they fight the reasons they get when they do ask. To say it's all about funding is very naive - I think some just honestly have no idea how children learn and feel that if you throw information at the students, some or all of that material will stick and the student can sort the info in his/her brain. I don't think that these schools are vindictive, it's just they don't know how students learn.

TalonTeacher - you're correct about the MLC. They are
in several midwest and northeastern states. They do provide free services to children with a dx for dyslexia. There is also the Scottish Rite in Tx and other southern states providing tutoring services as well. Both offer O-G certified tutors. It is certainly worth checking out their site - it's up now!(July 13th PM).

Dyslexia is not one of the "official" labels in the federal special ed law, IDEA. It is listed under the definition of severe learing disability. Unless a state has a specific dyslexia law, that is why you do not see it as a label in a student's IEP. However, it still should be mentioned & addressed.

That being said, what many have said is true. Schools & teachers generally do not understand dyslexia & the quality dyslexia prorams available. The Scottish Rite hospital in Dallas, TX has developed a quality program based on O-G techniques, but I have forgotten what it is called. Another center in Houston has developed another good program that is based on the Dallas program.

Someone mentioned that most students labeled LD are dyslexic. For the country that is not true. Because of the "discrepancy" model most states use for determining LD & the one size fits all general ed model, many students labeled LD are slow learners whose needs are not being met by general ed. This uses up much of the limited funds that special ed is given. As an ex-school administrator, I saw this happen & knew many other directors who said the same thing. Also I can not tell you how many times as a director that other administrators did not listen to my recommendations or references to the law/regulations.

LSCegypt -

Great thread! I agree that sometimes outside testing is needed to leverage additional resources. My daughter is dyslexic (her inability to decode nonsense words really clinched it!) but her teacher initially told us "If she just tried a little harder..." I felt like asking the same of her! A colleague told me about the 32°Masonic Learning Centers for Children. There are several around the country. I believe they offer FREE tutoring using O-G to dyslexic children. Have to check the website to be sure. Seems funny to drive your kid to the local strip mall to see the Freemasons, but when schools fail to help your child...

www.childrenslearningcenters.org (as of Sunday, 7/13 their website seemed to be down). Anyone else heard of the 32 degree learning centers?

I started a new group called "Dyslexia and Reading Comprehension" and would love to have feedback as to how you all see reading comprehension results in your children over time.

As another note, have any of you gotten an outside diagnosis done? Sometimes they can be powerful advocates when a school is dragging their feet - which they sometimes do! Also if you need to proceed with a lawsuit, they can be used to help bolster your case. We utilize an outside set of professionals as we are not set up to do testing, but we love reading what they say and what they think. Just a suggestion. I know they can be expensive though!

I can tell you all things have changed. When I went through teacher ed years back, dyslexia was defined as someone who reads mixes up B's and D's. There has been a lot of progress since then, but people take a while to change their minds. Teachers I work with still don't know what dyslexia is, or what the signs are. I try to help, but I am only me.

Their seems to be a big misunderstanding. I do not piece together a bunch of different systems when I teach. I use 1 system for phonics - Phono-Graphix. Our school uses the Rigby reading program. That's it. The others are supplemental and used within the Phono-Graphix framework. Seriously, please do a search on Great Leaps and Concept Phonics they are highly recommended, but they are not systems that I use any more than having my students read a Popular Science means I am using the "Popular Science teaching method". If I have my students read "Highlights" am I using another system? No, it's just a supplement/book. Some of you are acting as if my students are suffering. Last year, my lowest student's progress was an improvement of 1.1 grade levels. The average improvement for my students was 2.3 - the high was 3.6. We didn't do that by using many, many different systems. I also think we could have made progress if we used an O-G like Wilson, Barton, Project Read, Lip's. They are all good and address phonics instruction in a multisensory-explicit way.

I don't understand the sheer incompetence of some of the interactions you all have had. Professional development isn't very big in education and I think more time should be spent on it. I too would be concerned if I had conversations like that with teachers.

Very few schools will label a child with the dyslexic tag. In my area, only children who cannot read and write are considered dyslexic. For the rest of the children, it is either a learning disability or a reading disorder. Sometimes it is under a language-based disorder. My child is under this label, but the dyslexia children also fall under the language-based disorder. The largest subgroup of children under the LDs, are the dyslexic children running from mild to severe. It is about 80% compare to the other LDs running at about 20%. My latest experience with the educational psychologist at the school level is a debate if my child is dyslexic. He considers my child a good reader. He also stated to me that she does not have a reading disability. I than asked if she is not dyslexic or have a reading disability - what does she have? His response - "I don't know". The look on the other teachers was priceless. All I did, was flipped to the recommendations of her assessments, and pulled out another report that states the recommended programs that work for dyslexics. Both had the same recommended programs and the only difference between the two was the wording. By, the way I did get the reassessment that I was looking for my child, in order to prove that my child is experiencing reading difficulties. The second assessment has confirmed what my child's difficulties are, and the next stage is to get the correct help for her.
I think the different education systems throughout North America, does not put on a dyslexic label on a child for a number of reasons. I believe it is to benefit the school board. To save on funding, by using other materials that are already on hand. In your case, your child has been diagnosed with dyslexia and it is a permanent disability. Have you thought, this is another way of avoiding the costs of providing the right type of help for your child. All LDs are considered a permanent disability, but with the advances made in this field - if a child is given the right help, their weaknesses will not interfer as much in their day to day learning and social interactions. I too, have had this reason thrown in my face as why my child should not receive a reading program. I should just accept the fact that she will always be a slow reader. By the way, from the research I have read, if my child is given the right type of interventions - she can become a good reader, where it no longer interferes in her day to day learning except under stressful conditions.

momvic,
Thank you. That is what I thought.

What a lively discussion...and with so many concerned parents and educators. Yes, there are problems with the system. Yes, parents do feel that the school is not addressing the needs of specific children. Yes, children fall through the cracks. Yes, it is a daunting challenge for parents to research the various possibilities and they may feel that the public school owes their child the appropriate intervention program.
Please keep in mind that most people go into teaching because they want to help children. Special educators are responsible for a great variety of disabilities ...many requiring different intervention programs. They may or may not have received a tremendous amount of course work in any one disability. Helping the child must be a collaboration.
There are many good multisensory language programs which are research based with proven track records. Some are better for children with minimal problems, others are for the severely involved dyslexic. One psychologist I work with ways he has seen over the years that Phonographix works for some children but not for others. Wilson Language Training is excellent but also may not include enough intensity for some students. Other programs such as Sounds in Syllables by Sandra Dillon are more intense and involve total sensory integration in more of a therapy model. Parents must find the appropriate program for their child and often that depends on what is available locally. A little of this program and a little of that program can be a recipe for ineffective and longer than necessary intervention. The best programs teach reading-sound symbol association, handwriting, spelling, comprehension and written language...total language instruction-both receptive and expressive.
I totally sympathize with those of you trying to get help for your children.

schools do not want to call it dyslexia. They call it a reading or writing learning disability.
I was wondering from the start why they would not call it what it is... "dyslexia". When I would talk to my son's school, I felt that they were dismissing the fact that he is dyslexic.

LCSEgypt,

First of all, I do not think that anybody here is referring to how you behave as a teacher. My guess is that none of us has ever interacted with us, so as far as we know, you could be an exceptional teacher.

What we are trying to convey is that, even if you are, it does not mean that we have not met these problems and that it is what we are talking about here. There should be no reason for you to feel attacked, but telling us not to go to meeting negatively is not constructive. Nobody wants to go to a meeting negatively.

I do not care the label that is used as long as my son is given adequate remediation. For that, I agree with you. For the rest, I am skeptical that a kid with a severe reading disability will make progress with 5 or 6 programs mixed together (may be one or two), but I could be wrong.

All....can I have some clarificiation to follow this thread better?
So is "Dyslexia" the label all of the children have in their IEPs? Is that what the schools are calling it or is that what you or someone else is calling it?

I was just wondering have an IEP that documents Dyslexia which I understand is a permanent disability versus Other or SLD?

Thanks for the program tips. I am in the middle of collecting info on reading programs, etc plus the prices especially the ones that do offer a home program. I am trying to anticipate any road blocks thrown my way especially the road blocks concerning the response "no".
I am glad you have come on. We need the teachers to get involve. Although the sad fact is, very few public education teachers are willing to do so to express their own thoughts. I do hope you have a better understanding of what parents are going through in the public education system. At this end, you have confirm to me, that a private education has its benefits since teachers are allow much great freedom to respond to their students needs and parent concerns.

MomfromMA, I agree with you so much. LIke I wrote in a reply somewhere on this board, being 'nice' is usually what gets the school to violate laws, be intimidating, lie, etc.
Parents usually do want to help and be an 'equal member' of the IEP team, like they are mandated to be by the IDEA law.
But so many times schools keep them off the team and say it's their way or the highway.
Only when the parent knows the laws and use them, and know when the school is pulling the wool, THIS is when the school starts retailiating.
Yes it would be good to work together, yes it is good to be nice and not negative, but this is suppose to work both ways and it doesn't.

To LSC: As a parent, I have never gone to the school being nasty, but often those thoughts are in my head when the school officials are using the same reasons over the years why my child cannot have this or that. Comments such as my child must use the same material as all other children. Your child should not have a Franklin dictionary because it might give her an unfair advantage. This fall, I will be better prepare to do battle with the school and the board. I am going to turn the tables on them, just like I did in the early spring requesting an new assessment. In the school that she is attending, hard data such as assessments, or standard testing are not use to determine the needs of a mild to moderate LD child. It is teacher's observations and the child's grades that are used. Pretty subjective data that are so dependent on outside factors such as the level of support at home, or dealing with the personal biases that can greatly influence the decisions being made on the behalf of a LD child. To further complicate matters, is the fact that teachers in the province I live in are prevented from speaking publically on education matters concerning children and also to a lesser degree within the school and that depends on what directions that are given by the school administrators. I have never received a phone call from any teacher if my child failed a written test. Nor have I received a phone call when she receive the top grade in a test. No one ever asks me what I am doing at home, and when I attempt to, it is met with polite listening and no action on their part. Of course, teachers are turned into the bad guys but if structural changes took place within the public education system - teachers would no longer be turn into the bad guys by parents and their children. If schools were allowed the flexibility to run the school according to the needs of the individual students, if teacher training of new developments take center stage, if curriculum refects the various needs of the individuals; there would be a ten-fold increase in the literacy rates of children, achievement rates and so forth. Alas, we stuck with a system that works from the top to the bottom. It leaves teachers with little room for creative teaching. It leaves parents frustrated and angried especially for parents who have a special-needs child.

Wow. Have you done your research? Phono-Graphix has been scientifically proven to be an effective phonics program. Great Leaps and Concept Phonics are designed to be used with the existing phonics program as a supplement. Concept phonics and Great Leaps are not stand alone products. We use Rigby for the reading and writing component. These have all been scientifically proven to work with Dyslexics. I would suggest you read "Overcoming Dyslexia" as these methods are current. Do you suggest sticking with one program and just their books? With no other materials? Sounds boring to me. I try and use one system - Phono-Graphix - but supplement it with as many different games, books, readings, and writings as I can. Does this bother you?

We can argue which phonics program is the best all day long. Personally I think the O-G, LIPs, and Phono-Graphix are all good. It really depends on how well they are taught.

Let me say to everyone that I am sorry for the way they are being treated, but I did not treat you that way, your other teacher, school, etc. did that. I do not tell my parents that their students do not have challenges. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I have never met you and have never said such things to my parents. I welcome working with my parents and have a very good relationship with them. I send out weekly homework completion/progress reports and monthly progress reports detailing progress in all areas, including phonics. My parents regularly meet with me and I have never refused to accept their feedback.

PS I am using these interventions an intensive way as per our neuropsychologist that we work with. We actually devote around 3 to 4 hours on phonics and reading instruction each day.

LCSEgypt,

What you are posting concerning dyslexic kids bother me a lot. I am sure you are doing all you think you can, but the idea that somebody will help kids with a serious learning disability by providing a mix of various methods and that it will work seem weird and a little frightening. I am not sure at what level you teach and whether you are a sped teacher or a reading teacher or something else, but there are methods that have been scientifically tested to help kids with dyslexia and most of them requires a sustained and intensive program that cannot be reached when you use that many programs at the same time.

As for working in a negative state of mind, be sure that parents do not want to go work with teachers that way. It is the frustration in front of non responsiveness from the school system that leads them to do that. I know I am tired to hear at least one IEP member tell me that my son does not have sensory issues when it has been documented in the IEP and about every other letter I send them. And when the school makes an aide teach my son reading comprehension WITHOUT giving him any formation on the program except a few word with a speech therapist who has never used it, I am sorry, you get frustrated.

My son is not dyslexic, he has other language issues that make reading comprehension difficult, but I really would like to cooperate with the teachers. It would be a lot more useful for my son. But cooperate means there are two people cooperating. It does not necessarily happen.

Therose - I just read your reply and share your concerns. Getting the help, and really pushing hard when that help is working is very important. I seem to be the "evil mean teacher from the establishment" and that's fine I guess. I don't teach in a public school and I also think that public schools are not as responsive to parents as they should be, but I will be the "whipping boy" if it relieves some stress. What I am saying is this - education is a partnership, or team effort. When you go into a meeting with a negative attitude, you probably are going to get a negative attitude back. I heard someone say something to the effect of "What do the SPED teachers do all day?". With that kind of attitude, you won't gain many friends. Go up to a policeman, to the DMV, or go to buy food, and say, "What do you do all day?" and see the service you get. Teachers are not all the same, and schools are not all the same. That's what I'm saying. I know there are bad examples out there, and there are way too many of those bad examples out there. But being a positive, yet persistent advocate for your child will get the best results. You won't change someone's mind by being nasty, mean, or whatever - but you might get them to help if you are polite and try to work with them. If someone is rude to me, I tune them out even though they may be right. If someone is nice, I'll listen to them even if I'm wrong. I know it is frustrating. No one is more frustrated then me when a student is not learning. Name calling and generalizing isn't going to help a dyslexic read. Good strategies (including phonics), remediation, and lots of hard work will help. I listen and work with my parents. In fact I don't have one unhappy parent, and I don't plan on having one. I know what I am doing and at the same time, I am willing to try anything that works. I also care about my students and advocate for them as much as I can. If that makes me a bad person or "evil teacher" well I can live with that.

Sorry to hear about your problems, but your son is lucky and blessed - he has someone who really cares about him! Keep on being his advocate and politely, but firmly, keep trying to have his IEP updated.

Does he have strong oral expression skills? In other words, is he very articulate when you speak with him. Can he orally explain concepts, is he orally fluent? If he is, you can use the computer to help correct grammar and spell check to check for incorrectly spelled words. That should be allowable under his IEP. There are also programs that will help the student to write. One is called "Co-Writer" and another one is "Write:OutLoud"

at

www.donjohnston.com/products/writing/index.html

Hope this helps!

To LSC: I am not a teacher but a parent who had no choice to dive into the world of dyslexia, reading programs, research articles, teaching methods and all other things to help my child. From what I have read, from the advice of outside private providers, dyslexic children need a two-way prong approach for the older children. Intensive reading program using the Orton-Gillingham method on a daily basis and also remedial help for the foundation of reading and writing basics. I just recently discover a software program that might be the answer for addressing her foundation in reading and writing. I found with my child, reading comprehension depends heavily on how well the child can read, in terms of decoding and the level of the reading material. Her grade 7 science book was quite difficult for her. I believe the reading level was at a grade 10, and it seem to be written for children who are accomplished readers. I became her teacher in this case, breaking down key volcab words, connecting them to the science laws for each lesson. This was done ahead of time, so she could participate inside the science classroom. I know my child's problem is in reading and if only one side is address - and not building up the basic foundations of reading at the same time - dyslexic children will not improve. One will see short-term improvements but not long-term gains. For what I do at home for her, I am just barely keeping her at grade level. Since the school had taken away her reading program, her writing and reading ability is slowly degrading where I am now seeing signs that I have not seen since grade 3. For that matter since grade 1. Now my child is entering into high school where they do not supply reading programs for students who are receiving good grades. The only things that are offer, are remedial in nature and not targeting for children who have reading problems. In the fall, I will be insisting on a reading program, along with proper remedial programs that will address the foundation of reading and to be taken out of the non-core subjects for the sessions. Plus half the work load for the classes she does miss and accommodations that will target the weaknessess in her reading. I have also retain a consultant to advocate for myself and my child's needs.
What parents are complaining about are the structural aspects of an education system where each level are working on different agendas and often clashed with special education students and their needs. The biggest subgroup that are greatly impacted are the mild to moderate LD group, because their needs are not effectively being met which results in parents becoming tutors, hiring tutors and other specialized help. So, I am in a situation where the system allows schools to cherry pick the needs of my child - even though it goes against the mandate and mission statements of the various levels. Even though, I reside in Canada - I am positive there there is the same type of situations in the U.S. that parents find themselves trying to navigate a system whose structure has not change much since the 1950s and does not keep pace with the new developments and science regarding learning problems.

Our district uses the SRA reading program (Scholastic) which is has done wonders for his reading fluency. He completed the Decoding Strategies workbook during the school year. What my son is lacking is written expression skills. I know that you have to learn to read first, then write. What I am frustrated with is the amount of writing he DID NOT do in 4th grade. He could have had a more intensive writing program. For 5th grade, they are not adding any direct services for written expression. We did not get any ESY services and if I was one of those bad parents, he would be one of those kids that have free time all summer and regress...
We are now going into 5th grade and they are cutting the basic reading service hours and doing written expression as indirect services in the classroom. I am going to have to pay a tutor for the school year to help him outside the school with his writing skills. I can call IEP meets all year long, but when they refuse to do what needs to be done, I feel it is a waste of time. They have decided to do what they are going to do and that is all. It trickles down from the state mandates and I understand that I am dealing with government red tape. There is Wilson available in our district, but not in our school... It is reserved for the severe cases that do not respond to SRA. So... as a result, I help my son myself...

Thanks for the info. I think the parental involvement is key, but like you said, there are not any easy cures. I had two severe dyslexic students last year and will be getting a couple more this year. We worked intensively with phonics, reading strategies, vocabulary, and fluency. Their decoding was wonderful, but they often had difficulty applying it, or would forget to apply it when reading.

What has been your experience with reading comprehension? Has it gone up or stayed the same. The more and more I learn, the more and more it seems like it may not go up much, even with an intensive program. I notice it, but I'm hoping that I am doing something wrong so I can fix it. I currently use Phono-Graphix (with some Barton), Great Leaps, Concept Phonics, and putting all of my strategies together through the Schools Attuned program. I am seeing awesome progress with my other LD students, but only okay progress with my dyslexics (they both showed a little above a grade level increase in overall scores in Language Arts on the Iowa tests). While I am okay with that increase, they need to catch up even more (I teach 5th grade) and 2 years ago they tested at 1.3 and K.7 (Now they are are both in the 2.6 and 2.4 range). I just had them last year, and did not have them the year before. However, the year before they made no progress and I am concerned that they will not make any progress this year with a new teacher who does not utilize an intensive reading program. My other students actually got back on grade level after being down as much as 2 and a half years. But I really worry about my dyslexic students.

So please give some good news that reading comprehension improves and stays even with a less intense reading program!

To LSC: Most parents are doing that at home, especially the ones who are doing a lot of home tutoring. Whatever reading programs that are being done at school, are not intensive enough to see a steady improvement in a dyslexia child. As a dyslexia child enters into middle school, reading material increases and a dyslexic child starts to struggle even though this child was provided with a language-enrich home environment. For dyslexic chidlren, they need to learn to read well with lessons on grammar, sentence structure, spelling to go along with it. My child does know how to read but it is slow and very laboured at times depending on the material. She is considered at the level of a basic reader, and from what studies I have read - these children need to learn to read well. They can become accomplished readers given the right reading program that would include fluency. Reading or listening to your child as they are reading outloud, I have found with my own child that it does improve the verbal speech but it does little for her reading. And in turn it does little for her written work. Reading outloud keeps my child at the basic reading level, without her falling back to a level below basic. It does nothing for her decoding issues.

Thanks for the reply. I was referring to a quote from a previous post.

"Time and time again I hear that sped teachers are not trained and qualified to help with children's problems. So I don't understand what do they actually do?"

The problem you describe in the last post has little to do with the SPED teacher and what she does, it sounds like you are concerned about the number of SPED teachers and, to a lesser degree, what the regular teachers are doing in class to help. It's tough when you know someone needs help and you see they are not getting the appropriate help they need. But, parents at home can help their child by having them read aloud while the parent listens and gives feedback, review reading strategies, ask lots of questions, review phonics strategies, and provide a language rich environment at home.

Continuing the dyslexia conversation in a positive way will help move awareness along, but things in education take a while to change.

what's a WIAT test? is it the approved testing tool for dyslexia.and all this from a country where there are gr8 people falling under this category of exceptional intelligence.and great scientist like edison,albert einstein are all part of this group . havent they been successfuldespite their disability which i in positve note would say differently abled.

That's right, but what I have encountered is teachers that use the cookie-cutter approach with the remedial reading needs. A group of them are pulled for 30 mins a day. The rest of the time the teacher is floating around the school. My son is getting some individual assistance, but not in all the areas he needs it. We have 1200 students in our K-5 elem school and one sped teacher for the 4th and 5th grade students to share. She is expected to go up and down the halls of all of her mainstreamed kids to deal with each and every one of their needs. I know it is tough, but the school is failing the students because there should be more help for these kids. And God forbid she be absent because the ball is dropped and my kid gets no extra help that day. It gets shelved and made up during his recess which I do not think is fair to him.

I do think we need to be somewhat careful about over-generalizing. Dyslexia is a very complicated learning issue. I am a SPED teacher, I have been trying really hard to learn all I can, yet I still feel like I don't fully understand all of the learning challenges, especially dyslexia. A typical SPED teacher may be dealing with some ADHD students, some OCD students, behavioral issues, autistic spectrum students, mild/full MR students, and dyslexic students, and some of those students could have multiple diagnoses. Each one requires a different strategy and a different mindset. Some students just need to work harder, some just need some solid strategy use, some need phonics remediation, and some need a whole lot of a bunch of those combined. Each student is different and I can tell you it is very hard to just "up and switch mindsets" when you start working with another student. Not all teachers/schools are alike and some really do care. The challenge is working with the teachers and schools who are not keeping current or putting forth their best effort.

"Time and time again I hear that sped teachers are not trained and qualified to help with childrens problems. So I don't understand what do they actually do?"

That's funny! I wonder that too... What I have seen them do is what the principal tells them to do.. Which is what the district sped director tells them to do... Which is what the state tells them to do...
Trickle down
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:D

Believe it or not I just came from a meeting where the clinical psychologist announced that the local school system considers the 18th percentile to be "average." Even if a child has cognitive ability in the 90th percentile, if he reads in the "average" range nothing will be done.
I know the Orton Gillingham Academy has people in Canada. You should check the IDA website for resources in your area. There should be a local branch of either IDA or LDA that can give you some direction as to what is available near you.
In our area we have even had home schooling parents ban together to pay for training (and certification) for one person who then teaches the donor's children until the debt is paid. They have formed groups in which they collaborate to see that the children get appropriate intervention as early as possible. Just make sure that the training and program are legitimate Orton Gillingham based programs and that the training is accredited. IDA has a list of these programs. www.interdys.org

I live in a province of Canada, where very few LD children are consider dyslexic. In order to qualify for services under the dyslexic group, the child cannot read or write. As a result, many LD children do not get the proper reading programs, resources or even the proper accommodations. Often the LD children are lumped together using " one -fit- all -size" approaches that may or may not suit all LD children. At the present time, my child needs a intensive reading program to improve on all parts of reading. She needs to become a good reader. The school's stance is that she can read, although a bit slow - so there is no need for a reading program.
The education systems are not prepared to factored in the costs for the resources needed for the largest subgroup found within the LDs. Those costs are downloaded unto the parents, leaving the schools with the costs of what I do call remedial help that will do little for LD reading problems.

A lot of the problem with SPED teachers is that they either deal with low functioning students, or they are there to supplement a regular classroom. There are not many cases where the SPED teachers also teach all subjects or, especially to teach to, any kind of standards or curriculum.

Teaching has actually changed a lot in just 10 years so many teachers who went to college years ago are not getting the research-based methods that are out there. But in some defense (not much defense mind you!) but the IDEA was written with lofty goals, but within the education establishment (and I would argue that the public also feels this way) the mindset has switched from teaching to everything else. What I mean is this - education is now about employing lots of various people, it's about making/serving food, its about having the prettiest buildings in the state, it's about transporting people no matter how close they live to school, and it's about having the best sports program. Just look at the untouchables in any high school - sports and band. Limit funding to those and you will have hundreds of parents wanting someone fired. Just imagine if someone proposed that the school limit funding to sports/band/transportation/food so they could spend more on continuing education for teachers. It would never ever happen. We have the priorities that the public wants. It's like politics - everyone is against "pork barrel projects" except when it comes to their own project - then everything changes. Special Education is very far down the list of priorities as it isn't one of the "showcase" areas that the school brags about. These areas all cost lots of money and are public faces of education. Special education is not one of the more public faces so it gets little attention unless something goes wrong. Teaching is actually very far down the list as far as public education goes. Look at the numbers for a district - there are more employees that are not teachers then there are teachers in the district. We get what we want as a society. Press releases and photo ops show buildings/sports/whatever. They rarely trumpet hiring new teachers or expanding teacher training do they? How many people go to the high school science fair as opposed to how many go to the high school football game (also how much money goes into each one)?

''The sad part is that spec ed teachers are usually not equipped to understand or write appropriate programs for dyslexia, either.''

Time and time again I hear that sped teachers are not trained and qualified to help with childrens problems. So I don't understand what do they actually do?
IDEA law states these teachers are suppose to be highly qualified and trained in the childs disability (meaning the child they are teaching)

Actually, there is more available help out there than ever if schools were willing to look at it, and it has been increasingly accessable to schools. The sad part is that spec ed teachers are usually not equipped to understand or write appropriate programs for dyslexia, either. In our district, for example, they only study life skills and maybe behavior mod, so applying the same principals is counter-productive.

lscegypt, I agree.
The reason regular ed teachers don't know how to deal with dyslexia or any problem for that matter, is because schools are legally required to only help children that are in special ed, and the special ed teachers are to help with these problems, not the reg ed teachers.

This should be changed, because the reg ed teachers have to deal with these problems that the children have, too.

''IEP's are not generally looked at as helpful in the education field.''

This is crazy, this is the ONLY thing that is suppose to be used to be helpful to the sped ed child.

Hmm, I thought they knew this??

I am a teacher and I can tell you that there are a group in the teaching profession who have some wild, and wrong, ideas about dyslexia. Dyslexia is not a vision issue, it is a processing issue. As was said earlier, it does not go away, if successful, the student finds ways around the processing issues can somewhat help to rewire their brain in a more efficient manner - but it is never cured. This can also be a gift as many dyslexics are wonderful at looking at contexts, as well as, oral comprehension skills. To help the student requires a lot of intensive interventions which are very time consuming. Time consuming means a lot of one-on-one work and this is very expensive. IEP's are not generally looked at as helpful in the education field. My fellow teachers hate doing them. Personally, I don't see how you don't do them as they provide a map and goals, and how we are going to reach those goals, that we (the student and I) need to reach. I suggest reading "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Shaywitz as it is very helpful. Many teachers really have no idea as to what dyslexia is, and even less of an idea of what to do about it.

In many ways we would not want it to be because it can also be the source of many gifts

That is so true!!!! We would not be as adavnced as we are without dyslexics, even though experiences through most of our school systems usually have the effect of weeding them out of society.

You are absolutely correct. All the neuroscience and FMRI research (imaging studies) point to the fact that dyslexia is a function of the structure of the brain. It is not something which can be cured. In many ways we would not want it to be because it can also be the source of many gifts. That said, if one looks at the educational research, one finds that the earlier the student receives appropriate intervention, the better the educational outcome. Their is ample support for specific types of educational therapy and documentation of successful outcomes.

Dyslexia should be a very specific term in schools. In nearly all states (except Texas, so far) they are not required to test for it and and usually do not know how. Are you referring to the research on re-wiring the brain for reading? Dyslexia itself is permenant, but when appropriate help is given kids who are dyslexic can not only do well but very often excel.

Dyslexia is term with very broad interpretation within the school setting. Many schools don't test specifically for dyslexia, but very often there are "red flags" that can be seen imbedded in some sections of testing. I looked back in the discussions. Sounds like you have had a rough time. I also have a dyslexic teenager. She is now 16 and I have asked throughout her education if the special ed team thought she was dyslexic. Since she was 6 the school system told me she wasn't. Now I have her in a private tutoring program that works on brain retraining using sound and movement. The results have been nothing short of amazing. The latest brain research supports the idea that dyslexia, although in many cases hereditary, does not have to be permenant. We have take all the traditional paths. This path was really a hidden jewel. You might check out the website www.learningdisability.com for more info.

It's scary how so manyy things can effect our kids and our own health that we would never even realize. Dyslexia itself, however, is hereditary. It is also a very unique learning disability and research indicates that it involves the actual structure of the brain. Although it is classified as a disability, in an educational system that is traditionally geared for one mode of learning, many believe that it is actually a "difference", and one that expresses itself in many different kinds of strong ability .

You need to keep in mind that nutritional imbalances and heavy metal toxicities can have an impact on the biochemistry and neurological functioning of the brain. In my practice, we do hair analysis to determine any correlation between possible mineral imbalances and toxicities children have and ADD, hyperactivity, learning disabilities, etc. It is remarkable how many children show simple mineral imbalances and toxicities that impacts their behavior and performance, which respond positively to proper nutritional interventions. Our hair analysis was featured in an NBC segment in March and one of the children in that story who was experiencing learning and focus problems recovered within six weeks and is now able to do his homework in 1/5 of the time it used to take him. You may want to consider doing a hair analysis on your child.

Healthfully yours, Dr. Bina

There is a precise definition of the word dyslexia. There is also a clinical research definition. See the IDA website for the formal definition. You are right that many parents prefer this word because learning disability is incorrectly associated with low cognitive ability by even some professionals. Schools may even place or group LD students with students who have less ability because they "think" the same teaching strategies work for both. This is not accurate.

Litigation can sometimes work but often it is an exercise in futility. Some school districts will find O-G trained teachers or institute a program. Others can be forced to provide appropriate tutoring. Keep in mind that litigation costs too. Those funds put into certified tutoring can help a child who cannot wait for the litigation to go through its course. Some schools will also pay lip service to the program without really doing what the program requires. In the end, you must do what is best for your child and only you can decide what that course of action is.

Hi, blchristensen,
Alot of that has changed and the term dyslexia is now understood as a very specific form of SLD. It requires very different methods of approach for remediation and understanding for the child.

I have been told that the schools don't use the word dyslexia because it is used in so many different ways and there is no precise definition. There is a lot of confusion and simplifying when that word is used. They use the words reading disability or learning disability. Everyone else seems to use the word dyslexia, however. A lot of parents seem to like the word dyslexia, because learning disability sounds like the person can't learn or is not intelligent.

Also, you need to be careful about who tests your child, and the way that schools will choose to interpret it and act upon it (or not) . The ironic thing is that I once studied in a clinical PhD program, and if you go through the syllabi of almost any university you will see that dislexia is rarely if ever even mentioned. If training is offered, it is an elective and combined with many other issues. So I don't think that anyone should assume that letters after a name, whether it is M.D. Pediatiric psychologist, neurologist, Phd or clinical psychologist, has had training or isn't as confused about as the schools seem to be ( or want to appear to be) about dyslexia. Letters after a name can't provide understanding or insure knowlwdge of a subject that most often isn't required to be studied.

Our district whines about how it is too difficult. It is not too difficult for schools in Florida or Texas where it is ilegally required or several in California, and there are some very school- friendly, easily teachable methods that are better than confusing a child with no method at all, or one that is inapproprite. Teaching a child with an O-G based system at home, to have him forced into working with someone who is only trained in life skills is like pushing a rock uphill. Also, many parents do not have the financial resources to provide an O-G methods after school. If I did, he'd be in a private school for it. I believe that for all the money they are collecting on him, something more appropriate should be provided, as these kids lives depend on it. Many parents have gotten these resources for these children but they had to sue the schools and won. Unfortunately, that will have to be my next step, which I never would have anticipated doing.

I put my app in at the school district today. Hopefully, if I am at the school, I can help make a difference in my son's school. He has another year before middle school, so that will give me a year to get it together.. Wish me luck!

You are absolutely correct. Some states have active parent groups trying to get the legislatures to force school districts to recognize the term dyslexia. Many O-G training center train classroom teachers in this course content and the techniques. Check to see which O-G training centers are near your area and see what is being done. Encourage your school system to approve O-G training for its teacher continuing education credits. Become informed yourself as a parent and then make your voice heard.

Unforunately, ou all are right that schools have difficulty dealing with dyslexia & getting & keeping teachers trained in O-G methods.
As I mention earlier, years ago parents & advocates in TX lobbied the legislature to pass a law that requires schools to have dyslexia screening at a young age & to provide serives outside of the special ed system.

This might not be possible in all states, but I encourage parents to work with state & national groups to try to push your legislature for this kind of help. Legislatures need to hear the stories from parents that are being written about here.

Many educators and many parents do not understand what O-G instruction is or how highly trained an O-G therapist must be before becoming certified. I am a former public school educator who was fortunately trained in an O-G program for public school students years ago. (Don't ask where it is though because it no longer exists) I have also spent the last ten years of my life studying and becoming nationally certified as an academic therapist. It is like a second master's degree. The schools in your area may not be able to provide O-G instruction for your child because they do not have trained people who can do this. The other reason may be that they do not believe in the necessity of this kind of instruction or its content. Again, visit www.interdys.org to see the content and methodology. There do exist many fine O-G based programs, some of which are classroom oriented. Some are designed primarily for individual instruction. The options for the parent might include 1. finding an O-G certified academic therapist and paying for the therapy outside of school, 2. trying to force the school into providing a program for which they have no trained specialist, 3. sending the child to a private school or summer camp that says it does O-G (this can be sticky) 4. trusting the school based personnel to provide an appropriate educational program and plan, 5. becoming trained or having someone trained in O-G methods for a home school collaborative. Your choices will depend on your financial abilities, location and access to O-G programs and flexibility. Dyslexia is constitutional in basis. It is who your child is. It is life-long. Dyslexic individuals also may find that the source of their deficits is also the source of their gifts. They can be creative thinkers, talented specialists, intellectuals, academics, problem solvers...truly gifts to their families, communities and societies. They learn differently. We need to teach them the way they learn. If we do, there are infinite possibilities the the dyslexic individual.

Good for you! That is a great idea and I wish you the best of luck!!!! : )

I know what you mean. My kid's teacher is retiring next year, so we will probably get a goodbye present too. She has been on her way out since last year. Totally not changing the way things are done and will not change. No new training for her.

Maybe you will be lucky and get a better teacher next year. I am looking forward to middle school so we will be out of this elem school. There is an assistant secretary job open in the middle school special ed dept and I am going to apply.

I was shocked when I got it in the mail yesterday and will probably try and get an Advocate to have them provide O-G outside of school if necessary with the money they have been getting for his suffering there. I've realized that is what their game is about. Spec Ed teacher left the district so it felt like the last lick out of spite.

They make goals that far in advance? We do ours year by year. And year by year, they have continued to make his goals one year behind the grade he is in. His tutor said they do that so they will look good and they can guarantee that their goals will be met. I would like to know what incentives are earned by teachers who meet goals. I know general ed gets bonuses, but not about special ed. I am sure of one thing... the school gets money because he has an IEP.

I know. When I read the goals for my son they are for him to go to High School 2 years behind in 2009- (when they said that he is only 1 year behind now ) so they are anticipating a continuation of he same thing and making it a formal goal - when they know he can do much more. To me it is is institutionalized violence.

You know what gets me more than anything? is why schools are not more proactive with children that are dyslexic. They wait for the children to fall behind in reading and writing, then they address the problem as a learning disability. If they saw the signs earlier, they could help the children by teaching them with an OG approach. Our district has Wilson, but our school does not and we have over 1200 students.

Now our district is doing Dibels testing starting at the kindergarten level. They say they are going to help children that have problems early on. Well that is fine, but they do not have an OG teacher at our school. What about the ones that need it? They are going to let them fall behind, then go back and pick up some of the pieces (not all of them) with programs that are not OG. What a waste of time and years for the children. They are preparing these kids to go onto middle school- behind.

I also beleive there is a denial on the part of many schools and have been told by more than one principal that they don't believe in it or, after I brought in the IEE, that my son is the only one in the school who could have it. They have accepted the IEE but are silent as to why they will not provide the proper services, which they know, becuase it is not helping their budget. His rols has apparently been to help them collect money and apparently none of it can be used for his benefit. Apparetly one child's success will not improve their numbers and I believe that the bottom line is that it wouldn't be worth their while to identify the rest.

Many school systems prefer not to use the term dyslexia but that does not mean that it does not exist. Many prefer to use the term language based learning disability. You should have a complete psycho educational battery of tests done by a licensed clinical psychologist who will use that term but does a complete workup and comprehensive testing. Visit the www.interdys.org website for a breakdown of how dyslexia is diagnosed and which tests you need.

I have found that most schools do not want to make the effort to employ Orton-Gillingham methods even though they know they should , and you will need to do it on your own because it is something that can not wait to be addressed.

I have also found that most reports, even done by the school 's psychologist, have a standard format but there are differnt test scores and reasons for the conclusion and school needs to look at that. Our principal tried to disregard my IEE even before seeing it it because they might have to do something about it but the district had to accept it.
I have found this site to be the most helpful of all the sources I tried, including my son's doctors, in attaining an evaluation and school support, and providing a method that has been helping him- even though the school is taking the credit for my own work with him and useing it to say they don't need to do anything differently themselves.

www.dys-add.com/

My guess in because dyslexia is not a recognized label by itself under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) it would fall under LD, or Other, or some type of broader category like communication disorder. For the schools purposes, they probably don't want to box it in unless they know nothing else is happening. Reading and communication disorders/language disorders are often commorid with other disabilities and therefore not often so tidy as one lable. I suggest that is why the don't use it very much in schools. As long as the school is addressing his reading and not poo pooing your concerns. If he needs help they need to give it to him.

Schools don't diagnos as much as try to address the deficit no matter the lable. Therefore, usually a doctor medical professional is more incline to assign a specific label such as dylexia or disgraphia. They often exist together under LD.

That ts because if they make fun of somebody its going to hurt their feelings.

Thanks.. He is writing in his journal now so I will return the power cord to his computer. LOL...
Whatever it takes.

I am making a list for his IEP. Some of this is already in place and I will make sure his teachers are aware of his needs. Thanks!!!

LOL! So, how do they measure sucess? The SRA has been successful for real word identification, which is very good news, by the way, but has not been successful for pseudoword decoding. Anyhoo...

It sounds like you are on the right track with the tutor and the training you are doing. Both are wonderful! I would keep doing exactly what you are doing, and take him back for private testing when it is a year from the time this last testing was done.

On a positive note, his written expression score is not that low for a child who has a reading disorder and very poor spelling (which looks a lot like dyslexia, to me :)). On the WIAT, they have to write paragraphs, not just sentences, like they do on the WJ. For him to be writing that well, with the difficulties he is having, is a good sign. With additional help in spelling through the OG tutoring, you may well see the written expression score increase this year, too. I urge you to make sure that he is not counted off for spelling, is given extra time to complete written assignments, and is allowed to dictate some writing assignments to a scribe, when he can't begin to write what is in his head. If you do all these things, his attitude towards writing should remain O.K. A lot of time, our kids just give up on writing. The spelling is so difficult and the recall of words is so timely that it's not worth the effort, if all they are going to get in return is a paper covered with red marks. So, I advise keeping the writing a very positive experience, keep remediating the reading and spelling, and test again in a year. It sounds to me like you are really on the right track. It's just a looooooong track, let me tell ya! Hang in there!

That's right. But the OG teacher is not at our school. They use SRA first and if no success, then OG. This came from the director of special education from the district office in an email she sent back to me.

But on the bright side, the tutor I hired for the summer is a special ed teacher that has some experience in OG. I also purchased the first level of Barton to work with him. I guess we are on the right track, I am just scared about his preparation for middle school (6th grade). My next step is to find out more information about their special ed program.

Yes, this looks like it could be dyslexia. His real word identification has come up very nicely, which may well explain why his reading comprehension is coming up; however, his pseudoword decoding has not improved, and his spelling has regressed. Poor spelling and poor pseudoword decoding go together. To say that a child's improved reading comprehension will result in pseudoword decoding skills decreasing is absolute nonsense! When pseudoword decoding skills are poor, reading speed (fluency) is also poor, and the child will have great difficulties reading expository (i.e., science) texts. As your child is aging, his ability to read textbooks will become more and more important, so an effort needs to be made to bring the pseudoword decoding up. He also will need all his texts on tape, until the scores come up. I think you are correct to want your child to receive OG. It looks like it is needed.

I agree with you, though, that the reading program he is in also is helping him. I, therefore, wonder if you would be able to do private OG, so he can continue the reading program he is in at school. With our children, one type of reading program often is not enough. They need a multi-faceted reading program, and this is something many schools simply do not have and do not know how to supply. At your son's school, it sounds like it's SRA or OG, not both. Is that correct?

Thanks lillian12... I needed that.
I looked up his tests and this is what I found.

WIAT-second edition
3rd grade-November 2006

word reading 81 10%
reading comprehension 92 30%
psudo-word decoding 79 8%
spelling 86 18%
written expression 87 19%
listening comprehension 101 53%
oral expression 114 82%
numerical operations 111 77%
math reasoning 97 42%

WIAT-second edition
Grade 4 -April 2008

word reading 89 23%
reading comprehension 100 50%
psudo-word decoding 74 4%
spelling 77 6%
written expression 88 21%
numerical operations 100 50%
math reasoning 113 81%

supplemental scores-reading
reading comprehension 2 quartile
target words 1 quartile
reading speed 1 quartile
suppliemental scores-written expression
word fluency 1 quartile
word count 1 quartile

The special ed teacher told me that psudo-word decoding would drop as a child learned to read better. The nonsense words no longer make sense. Not sure if I should believe her:)

His reading level did come up this year. He is at the end of a third grade reading level. It is funny because he can read large words, but the smaller ones give him a fit. Also, he leaves the endings off of words- like ed,s,etc when he is writing.

The SRA program is a scholastic based reading program. It is somewhat sensory based, but not like Orton Gillingham or Wilson, which the district has, but not at our school. I think if they had the program at our school, they would have made it available to him. It is too hard to bring in someone, so that has not happened. They are using the dibels test to say that he has improved in reading and junking the 2008 scores from the psychologist because they can. It is really frustrating because he has improved.
Now I am questioning whether dyslexia really is the problem. uggggg...

Dear Parent---¶ Been there, had that done w/my 7-yr old son (now 9). Not possible for a dyslexia screening to occur in single sitting. It is hereditary (my father, me, my son's 2 male cousins are dyslexic) and 85% male. Screening would include family history and your child would be tested 1 - 2 times 3 - 4 hours ea.
¶ Imperative you demand to know screener's dyslexia credentials. Very few psychologists, psychiatrists and/or pediatricians are trained or credentialed for screening dyslexics. I heard the same mumbo-jumbo from school & district psychiatrists who had no academic or credentials qualifying them in dyslexia.
¶ This is a BIG problem as 6 of the 9 psychologists I interviewed (screened) believed dyslexia and ADD-AD/HD are the same neurological "disease"---false! Four of them did not believe dyslexia, as a reading-writing fluency non-disease challenge, existed. One refused to use the word, "dyslexia".
¶ Thank God there is good and proven information on dealing with dyslexia on the web. I placed my son in a private dyslexia tutoring class based on the Susan Barton program. This after "we" were thoroughly screened by a certified dyslexia screener which includes screening for ADD. Both may exist with a child to some degree or another.
¶ My son's school and district were adamant he needed ADD- special needs education (with drugs?). Now, 1-1/2 year later, my son has made a phenomenal turnaround academically and moreover emotionally. The stress and frustration of being dyslexic were viewed ad symptoms of ADD, not signs of a dyslexic. He has another year-plus of tutoring to go though he is above grade-age average in reading - writing fluency.
¶ Mostly, my son and I were-are able to talk about his dyslexia. It's vital he knows dyslexia is for life. His awareness that he is dyslexic---as with 15% of the population---like his dad, gives him comfort that he's learning how to overcome it. Oh, the most important knowledge center you'll find is "Overcoming Dyslexia". long, heavy read but new science on, for the 1st-time, what, where and how of the malady.
¶ Public schools are not funded to work with dyslexia or dyslexic students. Nor are private or parochial schools. You will have to pay for professional screening and tutoring, but the results from a good program are nothing short of a Godsend [sic]. And as for my son's supposed ADD "symptoms" the school-district psychologists identified 18 months ago: they no longer exist! His frustrations and expressions from being dyslexic are gone. A month ago his last year's teacher commented to me: "He looks so normal now. Did he outgrow his, you know, hyperness?"
¶ Good luck!
¶ Dave H.

((((Hugs, momvic))))

The early school years are so difficult for our kids, and it's so frustrating to watch them struggle. On the testing he had done, does it show his being below the 25th percentile on pseudoword decoding and/or word identification? If it does, than Wilson may be a really good program for him. What does "helping" him mean, when you talk about SRA? Has his reading level come up substantially this year? Does the testing you had done support this claim by the school?

My son has always been slow with reading and writing. The reading has picked up this year, but the spelling and written expression are slowly developing. He gets frustrated with writing simple sentences and will refuse to write. I have hired a tutor for the summer and she is getting him to write more using graphic organizers and a spelling dictionary.

He also has weakness in his hands, so she is doing hand exercises. He is also taking piano lessons, so we hope that will help with his strength. spelling seems to be his biggest souce of frustration, which makes writing hard work for him.

I don't know if it is worth it to continue getting second and third opinions because there really is nothing more that we would be doing if we had a confirmed diagnosis. The school can test him again in the fall and we will see how his numbers go.

Thanks for helping me understand where the school is coming from. I felt that they were not acknowledging his dyslexia because they didn't want to use Wilson to teach him. Wilson is available in our school district, but not at our school. They only use it for students that SRA reading does not help. SRA has helped him in fourth grade, but we are going on to 5th grade at the beginning of a 4th grade reading level and a third grade writing level.

We had our end of the year EIP meeting and they are helping him again next year. I just feel like we are never going to get him caught up and he will need help with his studies every year until we get him out of school.

Dyslexia is a controversial term and many schools and evaluators do not like to use it. Why? Because they can't agree how to dx it. Is it poor letter/word identification AND psuedoword decoding? Is it poor pseudoword decoding only? Does it include issues with phonological processing? Is it poor spelling in general, or do the spelling patterns have to follow a certain pattern that is a common pattern among dyslexics? How important is reading fluency? Reading comprehension? Can a child be dyslexic and have average reading comprehension? How young can a child be dxed with dyslexia? Should interventions be done first for weaknesses found in testing before a dx is given? How long should those interventions occur before a dx is given? The list goes on and on.

The International Dyslexia Association defines dyslexia as:

www.interdys.org/ewebeditpro5/upload/Definition_Fact_Sheet_3-10-08.pdf

That is the definition most widely accepted in the scientific community. You will notice, however, that numbers are not attached to this definition. What do "poor" and "difficulties" mean? On standardized testing, it means below the 25th percentile. So, in your child's case, you will need to look at the scores on word identification, pseudoword decoding, and spelling on the WIAT, and see if these scores fall below the 25th percentile. In addition, his spelling errors should follow common spelling error patterns seen in dyslexics, such as the absence of vowels, the spelling of words non-phonetically so that the reader can't figure out what he's trying to say, the absence of syllables, and the transposing of letters.

Having said the above, I would be very cautious of anyone dxing dyslexia with one achievement test, like the WIAT. Dyslexia is a serious, life-long disorder, and dxing it should be done with much more caution than one test can provide.

And having said what I just said, I'm frustrated by IDA's definition of dyslexia, and by the fact that numbers are not attached to the definition. I have a son, whom the experts have argued about for years. Does he or doesn't he have dyslexia? With him, it has come down to one test--letter/word identification. That's it. One test. That one has never been below the 25th percentile, so does he or doesn't he have dyslexia? Two experts say yes, and one says no. And we just keep moving along. That's all you can do, until the scientific community puts its collective mouth where its collective money is and "comes clean" with the numbers.

piwamoto & CharlotteD are correct. Schools do not use the term dyslexia much. I believe that this is because schools have limited knowledge of dyslexia. It is generally private testers & psychologists that use this term. However, the federal law (IDEA) says that specific learning disability includes "such conditions as ... minimal brain dysfunction, dyslexia, and developmental aphasia."

Parents of children with dyslexia in Texas lobbied for extra assistance for their children over 15 years ago. Schools must have a dyslexia program that is not part of the special ed program. At the beginning level students receive special help when they are behind their peers in reading. They do not have to have the label dyslexic. If this initial assistance does not help then further testing is done & the child may be labeled dyslexic.

So like a lot of things, what is done for the child goes back to state regulations/philosophy and school attitudes toward helping individual students.

Most districts don't use dyslexia anymore, because it's not a very precise term. Basically it means an inability to decode, and that can have a LOT of causes.

You should have your son assessed (preferably by a reading specialist) using a test that is specifically geared toward testing phonemic awareness and processing.

Most of the time reports will refer to the specifics of the child's problems, not the shortcut term of dyslexia. This is because schools don't use the word dyslexia. My daughters are dyslexic, but the initial wording was low phonemic awareness, poor visual memory and auditory processing problems. This would have given them a label of Specific Learning disability in Reading. My daughters are actually pretty severe, but I caught them very early (4 & 6). I was told by one dr. that they wouldn't qualify for any special help in school. I was shocked. I have homeschooled them and we have done all remediation privately. They have had O-G for 6 years now. My oldest reads fluently and spells at an average level.

I can pick out kids pretty fast that have reading problems. I can pick out those with auditory processing problems even faster. However it is a shame that the psychologist didn't do her report in such a way that it would get results at the school, no matter what she told you.