When my daughter was a Junior in high school during 2007-2008, her U.S. History teacher made no bones about telling his students he was a Republican and openly sharing his political views.

I do not believe it's appropriate for teachers to share their personal opinions on politics with Kindergartners through high school. Please note: Personal opinions and their political affiliation. While teachers have the right to free speech, discussing one's own view goes beyond the line. Many students still don't understand how our political system works, and to have a teacher throw out their own views, it's almost like the Pied Piper.

I do believe it's important for teachers to discuss the political process, it's history, and how and why the U.S.A. established its system of government. Also, age appropriate information is necessary. This can be accomplished in a neutral way. We have a very important election coming up, and I believe government can be taught to our kids without the teachers injecting personal opinions into their lessons.

I also believe it's important for parents to discuss important political issues with their children. My husband and I watch the debates, and if our son wants to watch with us (which he usually does for a short time), then that's fine.

College is a different story. Students are already old enough to register to vote and can participate in a lively discussion on the issues. However, I still believe instructors can encourage discussion without injecting their own views and beliefs.

I know I have already seen teachers in elementary school sharing their political/union beliefs with kids as young as second grade, and thankfully that was quashed as fast as it was brought to the principal's attention.

Regarding my son's beliefs in high school, he learned quickly to gauge a teacher before talking up in class. But even in classes that were not political, teachers would bring things with a bent and not even mention the bias. Sadly, he was often the only child in his class that felt a particular way, so he (after talking to me) decided it wasn't worth fighting. Thankfully, he is resilient. When the "anarchists" get more time than he does presenting a conservative agenda, you know there's no point in arguing anymore.

I do know I don't want to see any politics in elementary or junior high settings. Period. Like it's written in the teacher's file if they try to bring it up under the guise of a topic. I don't want to see it in high school either, but I know it seeps in. At the very least, I'd like to see acceptance of the kids who fall on the extremes--anarchists and conservatives alike. :)

I think No teacher should be allowed to discuss who they are voting for. I actually think this is disgusting as well as newsmedia that are biased. As an outsider it is so obvious when I watch newsprogram and certain reporters what a bias they have.
I had teachers that constantly talked about how great a certain party was, which was contradictory to my families beliefs. I found it distressful as a child to be in class when they talked about it.
I'm all for talking politics but it must be balanced and no personal overtones used.

i think teachers shouldnt discuss who they are voting for.im all for politics but not in school.

I'm wondering if a teacher wearing a political button is much different than openly discussing his/her political views with students...

Although it's important for children to learn about American Government and the political process, I don't think it's appropriate for teachers to discuss their own personal political views in the classroom-- especially to elementary and middle school students. I believe that high school students can be mature enough to find out the facts for themselves. I actually think that would make a good assignment and be a great way to get the future generation to care about upcoming elections. When I turned eighteen, I didn't really understand how important it was for me to vote.

I believe it's very important to discuss the political process. However, personal preferences/opinions should be off limits at least in grade school.

Last year (4th grade) my son's teacher showed a website to the class that asked opinions on varying issues. The kids were to decide if they were for or against each issue (which eventually aligned them with a candidate.) First, there is more to any issue than a one line question on a website. Secondly, the teacher brought up the question of same sex marriage. My son totally didn't get that and I can't believe many nine and ten year olds did. In my opinion, that's a discussion for children to have with parents, not as part of an online quiz. It was inappropriate in a fourth grade classroom setting.

Finally, my son's school district chose to shut down on Election Day to minimize "strangers" coming into the school while the kids are on site. I understand the safety issue but always thought it was a good idea for kids to see adults actually participating in the voting process. So, my son and I will be there to sell donuts at the 5th grade bake sale. (Unfortunately his own school is not our designated polling place.)

I think teachers can share their beliefs as long as they do not penalize kids that disagree. They should also not try and supersede the parent's teaching on issue like abortion and foreign policy. It is the responsibility of the parents on issues that cross religious and moral values as long as the kids and parents are not doing anything illegal.

Unfortunately or fortunately however you look at it there is no law against ignorance.

I do not believe teachers should share their political opinions. They should be bipartisan. I know it is difficult not to add "your point of view", but students should not be encouraged to vote because of a teachers view...they should instead be encouraged to research and come to an opinion based on facts.

Never, unless its college.. I think its better for teachers to be neutral, my child attends a school that would be considered conservative - however I was shocked to see that many parents that ate lunch with their kids openly discussed what candidate they were supporting. They also asked her who I was supporting - I told her it was none of their business. I also told my child not to say anything negative about the other candidates she disliked, so she would not offend any body - although one kid constantly tells who he wants to win. She understands respecting others right to what they believe - no matter how dumb its seems to her.

College faculty can be a huge influence. My family and I have always discussed issues. We don't always agree, but when my college age nephew started calling another nephew all kinds of names because they disagreed, I was very upset and reprimanded him for his actions. It seems the (vocal) majority on his campus are voting a certain way and anyone who disagrees with them is verbally attacked. If what my nephew says is true, faculty are the driving force. Because of this, I believe teachers should NOT share their political beliefs at any age.

It is never okay. We all Know a majority of teachers are members of the teachers Union. Most union members support democratic candidates. Certainly the Teachers Union supports the democratic party. Most teachers lean to the left, Therefore your child is sure to be receiving a left leaning agenda and never the other side.

The dean of liberal arts at my university (I'm a professor), just recently set up a seminar for faculty on how we can bring the New York Times into our teaching. I complained to higher administration that this would encourage the liberals to bring even more politics, i.e., indoctrination, into their classrooms. The core of lengthy response I got was that our students are not politically engaged and that we need to be encouraging them to be good citizens. How can such excuse making be sincere?

Imagine the dean of the business school promoting the use of Fox News in the classroom. As I pointed out in my complaint to our administration, there would be an uproar, and rightly so (even though Fox probably is less biased). It's clear that administrators and faculty are now using the need to "teach citizenship" as a cover for their unwillingness to confront teachers who abuse their positions. Clearly, in the USA, the indoctrinators are almost always liberals. We could talk about why it's liberals who do this, ...but that'd be better for another post.

It is never okay, I don't care if the teachers are Liberal or conservative. It is not their place to opine their opinions on our children, any more than it is okay for a homosexual to teach our children that same sex marriages or partners is a normal part of life. Or for a person of any calling to teach our children that we came from the big bang or from some other animal. They need to teach history as it happened, the consequences of it and how it pertains to us today.

It should NEVER be OK to share political beliefs if you are a teacher. Being an authority figure the children look up to and emulate- is a tremendous responsibility. Sharing an opinion about something most children cannot fathom is irresponsible- it's like playing "God". You may make a child parrot political rhetoric like, "It's time for a change!", but they cannot truley understand WHAT the teacher means without going into thier own biased diatribe. It's up to the parents to teach children polotics, as it should be for personal subjects like sex, marriage, and religion.

My son's teacher has often expressed her beliefs (at a middle school level) but does preface that this is her opinion and not necessarily the opinion of the students' parents, etc. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it is expressed as opinion and not as fact. My son knows that we often lean to a more conservative view point than the teacher but he is able to differentiate fact from opinion.

Everything is entwined with politics these days. Marriage, sexuality, creation/evolution/intelligent design... And we're living at a time of "war", an election that can literally change our country for the worse, a time of terrorism and religious intolerance, racism still lives on, our personal freedoms are being systematically taken away, and these are all major events right now.

While I don't believe teachers should be talking about their personal political beliefs, I don't know how they could teach without politics coming up at practically every turn.

It's a very fine line. Ultimately, parents need to decide if what's being discussed in their school is appropriate for their children.

I just had a conversation with my daughter's teacher and asked what I could expect her to learn with Sex Ed that's coming up this year. He told me and that was that. If there was something I would be opposed to her being a part of, I'd have her excused from that particular class. A parent has the right, even in a public school, to be an active participant in the education of their children and to stand up and say what's not appropriate if need be.

Look at some of the religious groups out there - they tell the schools what they will not allow their children to participate in, and the school has to abide. Come down to religious/philosophical beliefs, they must comply.

It is not OK in the classroom for students under 18 and in the school property.

I am for free speech only when a teacher leaves the school property. The teacher free speech is essentials with his or her children and friends or when she or he chooses to run for a political office.

I think most lazy and incompetent teachers share their political ideas with students under 18 years old. There are many things to teach the students about politics and government. Even the details teaching of three branches of government/ the world politics is likely to take one half of the semester.

My daughter, 8 reported that her enrichment teacher told them the presidential candidate she will vote for and said, " there nothing wrong with voting for an African American if you like him or her ." I am still sorting out things to make sure she said the above. I tend to believe my daughter because in the same school, her social studies teacher skipped teaching three branches of government because "it meant for Fifth grade", but it is in Fourth grade text book.

NY teachers lost the case and it is likely that some of them will miss out in the next school year.

Personally unless the dialogue can ensue with action on the part of the students then I don't believe a teacher's political belief should be shared in the classroom until the students are of voting age. Freedom of speech does NOT mean that the students should be subjected to a teacher's personal beliefs. A teacher has a responsibility to explain the process and discuss both sides of an issue being NON-biased. Especially when talking to children under the age of 18.

You tell your kids to listen to the teacher... that they know what they are talking about. Thus, they are in a position of power. For a teacher to discuss their own political opinions puts the seed in the child's thought process that it MUST be right because the teacher (whom my parents said to listen to and learn from) says so.

I think even colleges need to teach both sides of the issues. Today, college kids are being taught WHAT to think rather than HOW to think. Grades are based on opinions presented, rather than quality of work. With that kind of inbalance of power, students, even over the age of 18, are being indoctrinated. It should not be allowed.
The same folks that are resisting colleges from having to teach both sides evently are the ones trying to force talk radio to present more liberal views.

Never. Teachers are employed to teach our children so that our children can make intelligent decisions by themselves. Our young, impressionable children do not need to be swayed by the opinions of an authority figure. Our children need to learn to make decisions on their own so that they will become valuable members of our society, not sheep.

Most 18 years old can think for themselves. Some of these young men and women join the Army, have children, and hope to get marry the day they turned 18.

I think the Universities, colleges, and media need conservatives minds. It will be great for a few Conservatives to enter teaching profession especially in the elementary and secondary education. Hopefully, they influence some minds. If you cannot beat them, join them.

Just something to think about!

A very interesting and provocative discussion! I consider myself a liberal but I must say that in this context I find myself leaning toward the conservative viewpoint. I think it's very important that students learn about our political system and become civic-minded, but they should definitely be exposed to many points of view. Many students, particularly at the elementary levels, are very influenced by their teachers and think the teacher's answer is the right answer. Younger students may confuse fact with personal viewpoints. Even at the upper levels, students in high school or college might think if they don't agree with their teacher's political views their grades might suffer. So I come down on the issue this way--encourage lots of discussion in classrooms backed up by research instead of hearsay, encourage students to get involved in the political process but keep the teacher's viewpoint out of the fray. That means no teachers wearing buttons, T-shirts or signs in the classroom.

I think a teacher should not share his/her political views with any child from kindgergarten, elementary and to a certain degree even high school. His/her personal views should be reserved in order NOT to influence a child in a manner other than that which his/her family wishes them to be instructed. Although expressing one's opinion can truly open up the lines of communication for debate and discussion, I think a teacher as an authority figure would have the final word making it ultimaltey a one-sided discussion. In addition, who is to say that the teacher may not take offense or even preference to a particular student based on the students own opinions. I believe only historical, factual, non-biased information should be discussed and presented to students of all ages regardless of the subject matter. By presenting their political views, it may be implied that theirs is the correct view when in reality there is no right or wrong. There are certain subjects that lend themselves to heated discussions such as politics and religion. In the heat of the discussion, emotions may rise and hurtful things may spring up, therefore discussions involving personal beliefs of this nature should not be introduced in the classroom. Students in college are already adults and should be able to decipher the information being presented to them.

However, college students are still in a subservient position to their professors. Thus, it still remains a one sided conversations, where dissenting opinions are ridiculed and put down by an authority figure. I think in college it is even MORE important that BOTH sides of issues be presented so, as I said before, they learn HOW to think not WHAT to think.

I have raised 4 children, the last of which has graduated from high school last year. I have two still in college, one graduate school. My wife has been an elementary teacher for 30 years and I have substituted some myself. I believe in that in elementary and high school, a teacher should never promote one candidate over another. The sad thing today is that 90% of college teachers consider themselves liberal, many ultra liberal. My daughter who just graduated with a degree in Political Science in order to make an A over a B had to skew to the left a little more than she wanted to but was bright enough to know what she was doing and why. It is a pretty sad statement on our colleges that even in business and political science in order to excel as far as the professors are concerned, you should support a liberal agenda. Its OK if you don't, you'll do alright and even take part in much discussion, but being wrong you will not get the same grade in many instances as those who totally buy the liberal agenda. Heaven forbid my kid would have a Rush is Right sticker on her notebook!

NEVER. I have four children. A teacher's job is to teach not to express their political bias. I respeact a teacher to have a personal live outside of the classroom the same way I hope that a teacher would respect leaving that pesonal life at home. Even in political science classes. They MUST show the pros and cons of both sides. I coach and one of my greatest complements is that a lot of people don't know which kid is mine on the team. I know a 'good' teacher should teach that same way, at all levels. If not, they should be replaced. Our kids deserve better.

My daughter also graduated from college last year and was very dismayed to report that most of her professors had no qualms about expressing their personal political opinions in the classroom. She found herself also falsely swerving to the left in fear of receiving a non-deserving lesser grade. My son while in High School had the experience of being barraged by his Government teacher because he did not support his views and continued to oppose the teacher's choice of candidate and party. He further insulted my son for his points and beliefs. Needless to say, the teacher had a very liberal view which my son did not share. It is very surprising to me that with the level of liberal educators and their fierce intent of imposing their views on our children, that there are any conservatives at all!

Never...I don't think my child should be swayed by what the teachers think. I don't want my child to feel that he has to go along with the teacher just to get a better grade.

I don't know if there is any one in elementary or secondary education who has a gasp of the details of the miss leading statements from both parties. Like in a basket ball game, most of us like like a bad call when it is in our favor. We should be helping people think in terms of fairness. Is there a media outlet that is fair and balanced not CNN or FOX. If they canon get it right, how can we expect pure motives from us teachers. I have been in eduction for 22 years and honestly teachers do more damage in promoting their own agenda than leaving it up to students to vote bases upon research.

Unfortunately many teachers and their unions have decided that todays schools (elementary thru college) are fertile planting grounds and the acreage is our childrens "sponge-like" minds. It is natural for a young student to look up to and admire his/her teacher and get absorbed in the subject. However, these teachers also know that they have a "captive" audience. Just as much as I would not want a teacher pushing his/her religious views so it is the same for their political ones. Many political views go directly against families' beliefs in general. The mixed messages can be confusing and intimidating, especially if a student leans in another direction and is afraid to speak out. My son is being taught to question anything that contradicts what he's being taught at home in a private discussion with mom or dad.

Teachers are to teach what our child needs to succeed in the world. That does not include there personal views weather it be politics or otherwise. A teacher has no right to push his or her own political views onto our children or onto us through our children. It is never ok for teachers to teach their personal views.

On the issue of whether or not political buttons are a form of free speech: Schools have dress codes that students have to abide by so as not to offend. In the political arena people are easily offended. What if a student were gay and proud of it? Could that student wear a button proclaiming Gay Pride? Or if a white student was extremely proud of his/her heritage - could he/she wear a button that said White Pride? I think not. So it should be the same for political buttons. The school is a teacher's place of business and by law our children are to be schooled. In that light, I feel that a dress code must be in place for them as well.

NEVER...It is my responsibility as a parent to raise my children. That includes their religious, political, moral beliefs etc. The teacher, especially in public school (tax payer funded) should focus on solely teaching them academics and what they need to learn to excel academically. It is not the teacher's choice to impose their views and opinions to my kids. We have the same exact problem in the media. I just want journalists to report the facts. I could care less about their opinions. Leave that up to me and my children to conclude with.

Let's see. When we choose our town, our schools, our churches, our colleges and other Institutions where we obtain companionship and education for our children...I thought it was up to us to choose those places according to our needs. I am amazed at what I am hearing about 'education', the 'media' and placing political science in the realm of a personal opinion which should be kept at home.
To 'behave' in a certain way...as a college student...in order to receive the grade one wants is, to me, deceptive and unconcionable. What happened to integrity and the freedom of thought which is the basis of any educational system in a democracy? When we bend to fit the needs of others we do great harm to ourselves and to those with whom we communicate. There can be no trust without truth and without truth...well...look around!

I, for one, am thrilled to know people who don't believe as I do...However, I would never pretend (otherwise herein known as 'bending'...to polish manipulation skills to obtain what I wanted.

Further...The value in learning about others by children of all ages... cannot exist unless we experience life situations where we must adjust and accept and tolerate. Of course, there are boundaries involved, but life IS a series of problems being solved...That is what it is about!

I've already replied but I think there needs to be some definition of terms. The question said "share" political beliefs. I don't think there is anything wrong with a teacher expressing who they would be voting for in the upcoming election. I don't think the teacher should be "teaching" their political beliefs as "truth" (or as other people have said "indocrinating") and penalizing students for having a different belief, but in a discussion I don't object to "sharing" what they believe as long as it is stated as "in my opinion.......but other people may have a different opinion".

Having taught many years ago...I always felt it was inapproriate (depending upon the age of the children) to express my opinion. I always told my children to discuss it with their parents...I think one of the 'issues' I find in reading some of the ideas on this topic...is that SOME parents have difficulty believing that most/many/some teachers have a great sense of responsibility toward their own 'role' as an adult in the lives of children...and because of that...(as part of their integrity and training)...teach solutions through problem solving in any subject. A teacher's role varies by grade/age and by other factors in different communities. The teacher's role is not necessarily set by what one parent thinks should be taught. Public education is for all children...It isn't for the values of one group. This appears to become a problem when one group decides to make the decisions for everyone...regarding course content etc. This is how Home Schooling developed as an alternative.

I don't feel political buttons should be allowed in schools. This is inappropriate. I do feel, however, political views can be discussed as long as it is noted -these are opinions only and no one is discriminated against for their opinions as there are no right or wrong answers. Classroom discussions can be fun and informative for both sides. As long as it is handled properly, politics can be an exciting subject for students to learn about the voting process of their country. I believe teachers have the intelligence to properly handle discussions and not penalize students for their opinions.

I think it wonderful for a teacher to be able to wear a button at school for their choice of who they prefer to represent. It would be a great learning discussion for the chiildren. Of course it would be put in the form of age group of understanding.It is nothing wrong with it. Even if it not the same person the parent is voting for. Makes great discussion !

It's ok when it agrees with my views; Otherwise, it's ok when:
1. I know it's being done.
2. I know what's being discussed.
3. It doesn't compromise basic principles of ethics and morality.
4. It doesn't undercut my role as parent and is respectful of the values I'm trying to teach my child.

Several responders have commented that "it'd fine and good for teachers to share their views..."

1) The population of teachers, especially in the universities but in the schools as well, is predominantly liberal. Why? Well, what does an anti-business person want to be when he/she grows up, a business person?

Also, if your dream is to "change the world," then the odds are you're not a free marketer. Those who reminisce about the 60's focus on pressuring others to make changes. The free marketers want folks to be left alone to make their own changes, and thus tend not to be protesters. Can you imagine a march on Washington that demanded that "nothing should be done"?

2) Those few conservatives that are in the schools tend to follow the ethic of not imposing their views. The liberals, in good liberal tradition, seem to think they have an Obligation to impose their views (and they think of this as "teaching").

In my view, this is the reason why so many respondents want the politics kept out of the classroom. This is why it's not such a great thing that the teachers "openly share their opinions." It's because the liberals use "openly sharing" as their excuse to indoctrinate instead of teaching.

It's the administrators (and teachers unions) who need to have their feet held to the fire on this by both the parents and the public. Without enforcement, there will be no change.

Teachers are in a power position when it comes to their students and that gives them great influence whether they ask for it or not. In fact they must exert great influence to manage a classroom. Therefore I don't think that it is appropriate to make your political position known.

It's because the liberals use "openly sharing" as their excuse to indoctrinate instead of teaching.

Those few conservatives that are in the schools tend to follow the ethic of not imposing their views.

OMG...I always love to hear a 'perfect', analysis of how a conservative is 'better' than a 'liberal'. It is this sort of name-calling which has given the current election the direction it is going today.

I am 'the one/and teacher...who said...I felt, as a teacher, I didn't think I should impose my views. I always steered my classroom children to their parents.

One of these days, perhaps, the adults in this Country will learn that division, name-calling and anger...only delays progress for everything we all want as
Citizens...Hopefully...that will happen.

Katinka,
So do you really believe that in today's schools, that there IS no liberal bias?

I haven't been in 'all of today's schools'. How could I possibly label a nation's educational system...as belonging to one group or another. Have you?

No, but I have read the statistics. I've also discussed with parents all over the country. I've yet to hear one complain about their school teaching conservative values.

Have you read the book "How to Lie with Statistics"?

Life is full of labels...Most of which...as I said earlier...accomplish nothing except to delay progress for everyone.

Unfortunately, denying/ignoring facts does not make them go away. It prevents problems from being faced and resolved.

The 'facts' are your opinions.

Debating back and forth on a subject is welcome, but we don't tolerate personal attacks. Please everyone, do your part to keep our community a safe and supportive environment for everyone.

The original questions states: When is it OK for teachers to share their political beliefs?


If you want to debate liberal vs. conservative politics and their effect on education, please create a new discussion thread.

If you want to argue liberal vs. conservative politics you'll need to either do it via private message or in a private group. The intent of this forum is to discuss education issues not argue our personal politics.

Thank you for your guidance here.

Thanks, tjlove, for bringing this discussion back on track! There have been some great comments posted already. I'm really enjoying this thread.

I'm really taken by elprussian's comment about how, at the university level, there's concern about students not being politically engaged. I'm interested in finding out where civic engagement should start. It's one thing to learn about the structure and organization of the American Government, and it's another to learn about how to question and evaluate politics to help shape your own political identity.

Is it possible for students to build a passion for politics in a completely unbiased, unemotional environment? Doesn't a teacher with a strong political belief help model what political engagement looks like?

I like to hear students reactions, what they have to say, have groups, debates keep them on track, however a teacher should not invoke their beliefs...some parents do that already.

I think a strong political focus should be taught in the home.

If we switch out the word "politics" with "religion" we'd all agree that a very devout teacher can be a great role model in other ways but I sure wouldn't want the teacher prosthletising for either a candidate nor for a religion.

kkornas has asked a question that references one of my posts. He/she asks "Is it possible for students to build a passion for politics in a completely unbiased, unemotional environment?"

To answer this, I want to apply some of wisdom that MagnetMom just gave us. Just substitute the word "religion" for the word "politics" and ask your question again. "Is it possible for students to build a passion for --religion-- in a completely unbiased, unemotional environment?"

Well, a good old-fashioned revival is one way to get people passionate about religion, that's the emotional route. Many people or churches (and I) would believe that the more effective way to get somebody engaged in a religion is by encouraging them to study, to reflect, and to think.

As far as teaching political engagement goes, I'd express my passion with the power of an insight or an analytical tool, and by talking about the impact of decisions and how we can look at them and measure them. The serious teacher sees flaws in many if not most of the arguments made by individual candidates. For me to try to get students to be passionate by my engaging in partisan politicking seems simply to be unethical. ...I mean, are the tax payers really paying me to preach my religion and my politics?

I think kkornas's, elprussian's and MagnetMom's responses point to a larger problem with public education in general. We fund an educational system and then try to make it appeal to all people, which means five days a week teachers and students are often encouraged (if not required) to suppress the parts of their brains that think about things like,"How do we order ourselves as a society?", "What is the meaning of life?", "Is there a God?" In other words, the really important questions aren't only left unanswered, they're left unasked. We fill their heads with facts and information and teach new skills, but there's no attempt to lead them to higher truths. What else can a child conclude but that there are no higher truths?

Of course, I wouldn't want any 'ol teacher that I barely know to be teaching these sorts of things to my child. I really don't understand why public funds can't be used to educate a child in a school that incorporate's the child's whole mind, which means it includes those sorts of discussions that reinforce the beliefs and values that parents wish to teach their child. If the common good of an educated society is still achieved, why not? It seems a hindrance to the free exercise of religion to discriminate against education that contributes to the common good just because it also happens to include a religious/philosophical/moral component.

Back to the original topic -- in today's public schools, rather than politicking, I would prefer teachers spend time on things such as principles of debate, recognizing logical fallacies, etc., that would equip children with better reasoning skills to make wise political choices. I want my children to have respect for their teachers. A teacher espousing a candidate who supports immoral policies creates a very difficult situation.

I couldn't agree more, jbelferi. Critical thinking skills can be applied to any subject. However, there is always a pull back and forth from those who want only, 123, ABC taught in schools...and those who want debate and more in depth thinking infused into the 123, etc. It is the 'double-bind'...There are always too many people to please...school boards which are beholden to those who vote for their funds etc.
I also believe teachers have a huge responsibility to everyone they touch...it is their job...to assist students to learn...through curriculum from State and local Districts...developed by those who lead these aspects. It is not their job to politicize...only to present the procedures and understanding at the appropriate levels for the students. Children don't sift information well enough, particularly at early ages...to feel unpressured by teachers. It is the same, actually, as in the workplace...when someone is 'in charge'...and 'aiming to please' is so often a great part of the goal of the learner.

First of all the teacher should ask the question "What is politics?". Second question "What is the situation around the political question?" Then the teacher should try teach critical thinking skills.That should be a springboard for a good discussion. A teacher should inspire the discussion and not influence the discussion through the teachers beliefs.

These last few comments are nice.

To inject a bit of crude reality, the problems I see are not very subtle. Lots of Bush bashing that has no real logic or informational content. I remember coming in to teach my class after the last professor, a leftist, had left a message on the board "Happy Constitution Day... what's left of it." ...meaning that the Constitution is somehow being abused by President Bush. This is a finance teacher and I am confident that there was no evidence involved (how could there be). Constitution was last amended in the 70s or 80s, I believe.

Another student reported a multiple choice question on an exam. Something like what's the worse thing that happened in the US over the last year. Options were (a) hurricane Katrina, (b) situation in Iraq, (c) renewal of the Patriot Act, (d) ...
with the right answer being the Patriot Act (on a final exam).

So, the "passion" that people are looking for is really just blind rage and the "thinking" the respondents argue students are getting is really VERY shallow.

Another student was ridiculed and teacher sent a letter of complaint to honors adviser (this is an honors student) because he said that he did believe there are differences between men and women.

The reality is that teachers call this kind of misbehavior "teaching citizenship."

If we want to support good citizenship, let's start by demanding a more ethical administration of our schools and teacher's unions.

Best,

I hear your 'crude reality' as cynicism. I was unaware anyone had the right to 'demand'...of others...and expect to accomplish anything.

Lastly...I think our Moderator asked that we not use this thread for a bashing board by those who disagree with others and appear unwilling or unable to compromise.
Katink

Katinka,
I think the point being made was that teachers are ALREADY teaching their political opinions as fact in schools. And yes you CAN demand things from schools. It was the only way I was able to get appropriate services for my dyslexic daughter.

Did someone say, "moderator?" :-)

I think that since my last interjection this discussion has stayed true to its original intent.

Looking at the recent comment that has caused some controversy, I see that the poster was giving examples of ways she's seen teacher's injecting their own political views into their teachings. Even though her political views come across in this post, I wouldn't say that she's using this as an opportunity to argue for them.

It's really nice to see everyone contributing positively to this discussion. I know with the presidential election only days away, it can be hard to keep our emotions out of it. Keep it up!!

Certainly the teachers should not share their political beliefs in elementary and Jr. High. Not sure they should even share it in detail in high school.
Their job is to educate, not give rhetoric and there should be a firm line. I believe this even if the teacher votes the same way I do.

As usual the fine points of this question are in the wording. Is a teacher sharing their viewpoint or arguing for why their viewpoint is correct? Big difference. I frankly believe the whole kids voting thing is a crock since the kids are largely parroting their parents' political stance. By high school it's fair game, these are young adults who will be voting after their senior year and the teacher should moderate rather than proselytize. Can they put a bumper sticker on their car? Of course. If a student engages them in discussion, free speech. In the classroom the teacher has to take a more neutral position so that everyone feels that they can express their views. A teacher who uses the classroom as their own personal bully pulpit should expect resistance and angry parents at the classroom door! A parent who says a teacher cannot lead a high school class in a political discussion should consider visiting Iran. I am proudly a liberal professor and not afraid to admit it.

Big difference. I frankly believe the whole kids voting thing is a crock since the kids are largely parroting their parents' political stance.

I disagree with this statement for the most part. It is like all else 'we teachers/professors' teach...It isn't for the purpose of voting. It is for the purpose of teaching them about our way of attempting to get along with other people with whom we are in disagreement. No communication skill is a crock...in my opinion. Young children live in a classroom/society on a daily basis. It is important for them to learn cooperation and other social skills without having those skills identified as adult 'stuff'...Children are so fair, so positive and much kinder to each other than many adults attempting to learn the same skills. Never understimate a 'child'.

Here is the link that shows how far even elementary teachers sharing their opinions will go. I have never seen or heard of a more conservative viewpoint so openly being espoused has happened although I am sure it has. Probably just not dumb enough to do so on a documentary. Leave the politics out of the classroom!

This was on a Finnish documentary. This stupid teacher knew she was being filmed.

When she asks the children who they would vote for for President if they could, one little black child says Obama because he is black. She asks a little white girl who says McCain and the response is, "Oh Jesues." She goes on to tell the little girl her father who is in Iraq will not be coming back for 100 years because McCain wants him there for 100 years. This is in Ashville, NC where 15000 students are military kids.

This is pretty amazing that a teacher could get away this this. She is under investigation and has transferred to a new elementary school that serves of all places Ft. Bragg. They probably didn't know about this when she was hired. Hopefully she will not have a job.

Here is the link...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3BS7oVhS0o

People get away with murder, theft, rape, abuse...every day of the week. Just check out 'you tube'...you'll find whatever you are seeking. This extreme example of unhealthy human beings has nothing to do with 'teaching or politics'...It has to do with the unfortunate depravity some people experience during their lives.

I think it's OK for the teachers to voice their opinions as long as they are not imposing them on their students (just like religion). If children are well grounded, they'll see it's OK to have difference in opinions (i.e if it exist). My son's teacher has a completely diffferent political take than mine, but that didn't affect my child. Infact, while going over some of the policies by both candidates (at the time), he came up with his own scenarios which was a good feeling for me. Children usually follow the "trend" till they are old enough to make a choice they feel comfortable with. In the meantime, the more opinions they come across with, the better!

Sorry Katinka, but my experiences (and I have taught children and been in K-12 school environments during election time) is far different from what you describe. Particularly while I was in the afterschool environment where kids were monitored by their regular day teachers.
He even heard things in the hallways during the regular school day that was just kids parroting their parents. I don't know what your situation is, but perhaps you need to spend some time in the school and particularly on the playground at recess. Big enlightening experience.

typo in my last post, should have read where kids are NOT monitored by their regular day teachers. Sorry for the confusion. And might I add, even high schoolers can make really bad comments, on the day after the election, an aide in my son's afterschool program told my 11 year old son that Obama would never make it to Inauguration Day. And this school is in the most affluent district here.....money don't buy everything, especially brains! Rather than get in her face, I told my son that on Inauguration Day he should walk up to her and simply point out that she was wrong....and smile real big while saying it.

My point exactly. Many human beings don't do or say the 'right' things...But the issue should be learning from the differences...not slandering someone who does. Where is the perfect world some of you are seeking? Is that the world where you are right and everyone else is wrong? Education is for, by and about everyone. Just like the New Administration will be!
Nothing will be perfect, but there WILL be decency, integrity and hopefully no more nastiness...The last batch was within the campaign of those who didn't win...against those who didn't win. Now, figure that one out!!

I don't think a teacher should ever share their opinions on political issues, unless it is directly related to government or history. Even then they are crossing a very fine line and should use the utmost discretion not to include any personal beliefs. I had a teacher discuss religion in one of my junior high classes and was, later, as an adult , appalled that such a thing had happened. Had I known then what I know now, I would have reported the teacher to the principal.

While I agree, in part, with Katinka about children voting what their parents vote in a mock election, I respectfully disagree with the verbiage that its a crock. The children know their votes don't count and I believe that allowing them to vote only serves to help them understand what its like to vote in an election. I also believe that they get a taste of what its like to vote and how important it is to take full advantage of the privilege of voting.

Katinka,
There is also something called appropriateness which is why we don't have sex ed for first graders. Time would be better spent teaching about our government (what is the electoral college, its' history etc....) then mulling over the candidates via parents' views mimicked by 8 year olds.

Sonora,
...more advice for your son (regarding this nasty comment made by another student). He could point out that our current president has survived almost 8 years, with movies made about assassinating him and everything. Thus, it seems our Secret Service has been doing a pretty good job. When you think about all the threats that may well have been out there, this achievement is really very impressive (and thank Heaven for it).

elprussian,

Good point. Thank goodness for the Secret Service who I think do an excellent job ( I am old enough to remember when President Reagan was shot and how much worse that could have been ). I also was a child during the Kennedy assassination (we had a neighbor who said descpicable things when that happened...) Truthfully, I wanted to go over to this young lady and tell her that if she ever uttered something like that to my son again...she'd be out of a job by Inauguration Day! But sometimes you just have to consider the source.

I don't seem to understand where anything was suggested about it being appropriate for a teacher to share his/her views about the recent election. My points have been regarding the PROCESS of working in groups, with differing opinions. Sex education in first grade depends upon the topic. It is entirely appropriate to point out that strange people do strange things...not identifying parts or anything else inappropriate. I think you need to go back the beginning and see what I have said, throughout this thread regarding protecting children. It is interesting to me that BECAUSE I am a retired teacher...some have assumed I did all of those negative things...'teachers do'...It is called 'expectations'...My life was spent working with children within the boundaries of what was age appropriate and within the perameters of the role of an effective teacher. That was my job and I was extremely well trained. I still work with children and their families in a counseling capacity. Assumptions should be checked...

Katinka,
The question asks when it is appropriate regarding political issues. If the recent election is not a political issue then I don't know what is. I'm just asnwering the question as I read it. We agree to disagree. Stanger danger is also a far cry from sex ed, in my opinion. I only make assumptions based on what people post. I don't know you and you don't know me.

I don't think it is the teacher's role to share his or her personal beliefs - instead I see their role as a facilitator and moderator of healthy debate, for example; how to state an issue - how to support an opinion - how to give examples and supporting evidence., how to write about. A good teacher will incorporate basic skills of research, reading, writing, data collection - mathematical analysis, into this type of activity. A good teacher will help students look at situations from all sides - so that students can acquire and practice the skills necessary to form an opinion and make informed choices. A great teacher will encourage students to understand - that an opinion is not a right or wrong issue - but rather a belief - based on one's experience, knowledge, and perception - an individual right -and should be valued and respected as such.
The classroom is not a podium for the teacher to make converts from a captive and vulnerable audience.

Exactly...My granddaughter has a 'great' teacher. As an 8th grader...her family members each have differing views and we all respect one another. Thank you for a clear and concise anaylsis of our discussion!

"A great teacher will encourage students to understand - that an opinion is not a right or wrong issue - but rather a belief - based on one's experience, knowledge, and perception - an individual right -and should be valued and respected as such."

I'm not sure if I completely agree with that statement. It seems to imply that there is no truth and no right or wrong, but that everything is shaped by one's experience, knowledge, and perception. Granted, these are things that will shape what a person believes to be true and there's some value in seeing how they play a part in forming a person's ideas, but I think a great teacher recognizes that nevertheless there are absolute truths which do not depend on us; there are things that are really true, false, right, or wrong, and they can be discovered. After all, if there are no absolute truths able to be discovered, why discuss them at all? Is it just an exercise in power and influencing people or in recognizing that people think differently than you?

Opinions should be judged as to whether they seem true. Instead, it seems that there is a lot of analysis of the person who makes some sort of statement -- what social or environmental factors would make him think such a way? What sort of power or political advantage is this person seeking? -- rather than recognizing that there really is truth and judging whether a certain idea conforms to it. Or is truth nothing more than power and majority rule?

Absolute Truth - A Logical Necessity
You can't logically argue against the existence of absolute truth. To argue against something is to establish that a truth exists. You cannot argue against absolute truth unless an absolute truth is the basis of your argument. Consider a few of the classic arguments and declarations made by those who seek to argue against the existence of absolute truth…

"There are no absolutes." First of all, the relativist is declaring there are absolutely no absolutes. That is an absolute statement. The statement is logically contradictory. If the statement is true, there is, in fact, an absolute - there are absolutely no absolutes.

"Truth is relative." Again, this is an absolute statement implying truth is absolutely relative. Besides positing an absolute, suppose the statement was true and "truth is relative." Everything including that statement would be relative. If a statement is relative, it is not always true. If "truth is relative" is not always true, sometimes truth is not relative. This means there are absolutes, which means the above statement is false. When you follow the logic, relativist arguments will always contradict themselves.

"Who knows what the truth is, right?" In the same sentence the speaker declares that no one knows what the truth is, then he turns around and asks those who are listening to affirm the truth of his statement.

"No one knows what the truth is." The speaker obviously believes his statement is true.

There are philosophers who actually spend countless hours toiling over thick volumes written on the "meaninglessness" of everything. We can assume they think the text is meaningful! Then there are those philosophy teachers who teach their students, "No one's opinion is superior to anyone else's. There is no hierarchy of truth or values. Anyone's viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else's viewpoint. We all have our own truth." Then they turn around and grade the papers!

Or?

Generally Civic's or US history classes start in middle school. I think in discussing political beliefs are ok but the teacher must be open to all discussions on the subject; using it for her/his agenda would not be right.

as far as wearing buttons I would say no because you open the flood gates wide open for almost any type of political buttons.
Right now it is a touch-n-go on Say No to Drugs buttons worn by students and teachers that have a drug free school.

Beauty is in the eye "I" of the beholder. Whatever you what to precieve that is your truth. for who be it I to tell you your truth

If you only teach what is "known to be absolute truth"
(best truth we have available to us)...you only can learn as much as the teacher knows. Remember once upon a time the earth was flat and the sun was yellow.
A teacher teaches a child how to think! At least, that is my opinion.

Katinka, did you get cut off? "Or?"

fyi...This looks like the article Katinka quotes from:
www.allaboutphilosophy.org/absolute-truth.htm

-------
This is a test to hyperlink to the <a href="http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/absolute-truth.htm">article</a>.

Did I get cut off????

Click here: Absolute Truth Nope...Here is the source.

Gosh...Here come the plagiarrism police@!!!

Quotes were there...Is that what you are referencing?

plagairism...correction

I am really enjoying this discussion!


I wonder,
- it is all about perception, somethings can be proven with numbers- absolute truth or not?
Check out this clip - just for fun!
www.break.com/usercontent/2007/7/Hillbilly-Math-... - 70k - Similar pages

or is it plagiarism.

Katinka,

The original question says "appropriate" in terms of teachers sharing their political opinions. The recent election is a political event, hence my replies. My assumptions are based on what is posted and I respond in kind. Sex ed for 14 year old kids is different then what you are talking about (stranger danger, inappropriate touching) for younger kids. One approach is "appropriate" for one age group and not for the other. Hope that clarifies things.

This 'page was not found'...on Break.com...

But...like the t.v. series...NUMBERS? I love it!

Of course...Just like when our President Elect was accused of pro Sex-ed...for Kindergartners. I couldn't agree more...However...I was still inserting the 'skils' which are included with 'thinking'...and at the First
Grade level...voting for class leader, team leader, crayon monitor etc...is age appropriate. If the teacher does the choosing (i.e. wears a political button which contains the photo/name of only one child who made application/ran for office)...he/she is still showing the same power/pressure as at any other level...with any other situation. It's the relevancy...

To fattyman - I don't think a teacher should 'share' their political beliefs at any time. Who one votes for is no one else's business except the person doing the voting. Even if the discussion is prefaced with "In my opinion..." who cares what another's opinions are or is? I know its none of my business and if I didn't ask for an opinion, don't give me one. Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one, but no one wants to hear it. Teachers don't need to be micromanaged or videotaped while in the classroom, but they should be grown up and smart enough to know when not to impose their opinions.

to Buckaroo - but how do you know it would be non-biased? Hey, as far as I can tell, we are all human here and humans have a tendency to blab whether they want to or not. I don't see how delivering this information in Social Sciences can be done unbiased. Could you explain further so I too may understand?

Type in a search for "hillybilly Math" Click on youtube.
I hope you enjoy it!

Katinka, my question "Did you get cut off?" is in reference to your post of about 3 hours previous to this post where you end the post with a single line that says:

Or?

I thought you may have had a thought that you didn't finish. Perhaps it was just something inadvertently left in the reply box when you submitted it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about by the plagiarism police. It's obvious it was a cut & paste so I don't think anyone thought you were trying to pass it off as your own. Just thought other readers might like to read the article in full and see the website. It looks like a good one.

I personally do not think a teacher should discuss who they are voting for but I do think they should stress the importance of voting and knowing what your voting for right from the very start. We must all remember though teachers share their opinions with our children everyday even though we may not always agree.

I think that is very true. Even if words aren't used teachers, in fact all folks, send messages through their actions, deeds, expressions, dress, and mannerisms. Sometimes the very tone in a voice, and or body language, communicates information that the words don't necessarily convey. I am not sure of the exact statistic, but something like only 7% of communication is through words.
Teachers spend a great deal of time with our children and can really influence their feeling and thinking. Unless a teacher is capable of fostering a sense of open-mindeness and fair exchange - they should stay out of the classroom. As far the sharing political beliefs, I think the policy should be that the teacher reserve sharing personal comments for a different venue. While they are on the job their role is to engage the students in thinking strategies so they can think and make decisions for themselves.

Never-
They are not paid to teach their values, beliefs or ideals. That is to be left to the parents. They are being paid to teach. They are not Bill O'Reilly or Oprah. Same with character developement-let the parents handle that.

i agree with mom2mom,thats not what teachers are paid for.

In the simplest terms... NEVER!!!!

It is our job as parents to instill the political values for our children.

It certainly isn't the teacher's job...But won't some of you be surprised when your 'child' develops his/her own value system and it is different from yours? "Instilling" reason, fair, thinking skills is the goal I always work with. How could I possibly assume that my child won't eventually know much more about everything than I do...and make decisions which are effective for their own lives...

After the recent elections, both of my children wanted to know who their teachers' would vote for. In my household, we do discuss subjects that our kids are interested in and we give them our opinions based on our faith. I feel that it's important to instill moral value, and explain the importance of character, and integrity and accountability! The election was a great way to display the importance of those key points to our children. Now we are learning about how to recover with dignity with a loss.

I feel that it's important to instill moral value, and explain the importance of character, and integrity and accountability!
The Act of 'instilling'...anything upon anyone else is done by example...If we show morality, strength of character, integrity and how we are accountable...We have shown our children how we live. However, if we neglect to explain...as they grow...that others have their own sense of these issues...we deny them the opportunity to develop their lives to their fullest. This usually happens due to fear that 'another system' will pollute our children. Fear begets fear and misunderstanding. Children raised in fear...only to find out that others are 'different, but equal'... can become angry and dissolutioned. The world is a very large place...it holds people of all faiths, colors, cultures and abilities. I rejoice in those differences and applaud those who don't consider this election a 'loss'...Hopefully, we have all learned that in our world...we need to work together to make it function...and that the ideas of all people are of value when shared with common goals.

Why can't children develop their own political values, faith and lifestyles as they see fit? Of course, all of this comes as one is growing up. Why do parents have to tell their children they have to prescribe to a certain faith or political view? So what if their political views aren't in line with ours?

I refuse to send my daughter to church every Sunday just because I was. I don't subscribe to a particular religion and guess what? Neither does my husband or daughter. And no, we are not heathens or agnostic or atheiests either. I believe in God as does my husband. We're letting our daughter find her own way to God without any interference. When she has questions, she'll ask and we'll be there with the answers. BUT, we are not suggesting she pick any particular religion. We had it shoved down our throats as children and we're not going to repeat our parents mistakes.

to stayathomemom: I understand your method of raising your children. Really the only difference I have from yours is I try to influence them some in my religious beliefs As I believe in a Heaven and I want my children to be there also.
as far as Politics I have always told them to vote for what their own interpataion of the best canidate is and vote for that person.
my youngest son 20 years old now told me as we went to go vote this last election: "dad I an so grateful for not indoctrunateing me that you allowed so much free thinking and that you have been honest about everything and yes I am thinking of the GOD THING then he smiled"

stayathomemom,
It seems that for you, some values are just as good as others. Are you consistent with this approach in other areas? You don't shove hygiene down their throats and make them brush their teeth, take baths, or wash their hands after using the bathroom, do you? Or perhaps you'll share with them that looking both ways before crossing the street is the safest way in your opinion, but you're certainly not going to repeat the mistakes of your parents and discipline your child if she decides to do it her own exciting, and usually faster way. I suspect rather that you do teach your daughter these things because they are good and will keep her safe.

Of course, if you have some values that you don't believe are objectively good and that there are others which are objectively bad, or you really don't know, then by all means, let her choose her own.

If my child wants to be a vegetarian and promote vegetarianism to others, sure, whatever. I have no strong feelings about that. However, if she wants to be a domestic terrorist and assassinate meat-eaters, that's wrong, and I will do what I can to dissuade her.

Your children are going to have many influences in shaping their values. The only reason I can see why a parent would want to lessen their own influence on their own child's value formation is if they don't really have a strong belief in whatever value is being discussed. And politics is all about values and prioritizing values.

So if you believe in God, and that it's right and good to believe in God, and that there are right and wrong things to believe about God, then the most charitable thing a parent can do is teach their child what they believe to be right, and good, and true. And you want to lessen the influence of those who believe in something wrong, and bad, and false. Again, same for politics.

Well stated. This is what I meant about 'avoiding confusion'...Children need 'guidelines' for their own security and to enable them to feel as though they 'belong' . I don't think anyone was shirking that, but I like the way you point it out through examples. Consistency, within their family, is crucial as they grow...Later...they will branch out...as suggested by the young man smiling at his father...about the 'God Thing'...It's great being a grandparent...My son, at one point, told me he wanted my grand girl to have HIS values...He said...'You had your turn'...I responded: "Then why are some of your values different than mine...we all branch out to something different"...She will find hers from all of us...and from her peer group/teachers and many associations throughout her life.

to jbeferi - I am consistent at all times. I don't let my daughter do whatever she wants, when she wants. There are lines she knows not to cross, although she does try. I expect her to brush her teeth after eating sweets and I expect her to wash her hands after going to the bathroom. Crossing the street safely is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. I expect her to use the crosswalk when crossing the street and crossing with the light and not against it. However, that is no assurance that an accident will not happen (God forbid). To odachimaster, I too believe in Heaven and want my daughter there with me. But that does not mean I have to influence her religious choices. She will be able (with our guidance) make her own path. I merely said I am not into organized religion. I have had 40 plus years of being a Christian and a Baptist and I have seen so much hypocrisy in organized religion that I have had enough of it and will not force my child to go through the same bs I put up with. Why force feed a child something I no longer believe in? I'm not saying that if she wants to attend a church service that I'll stop her, because I won't. I'm only saying that she is allowed to make her own choice and take a little from the myriad of religions that are out there today. No, she will not grow up to be some monster or eco-terrorist, but she will also not be forced to subscribe to organized religion. Just as a side-note here, I have some very strong Catholic friends that I have told them about this and they are very accepting of my choice, my decision as to how I raise my child.

stayathomemom I agree with you. I am a very open minded person and that is how I approach things, situations bad, good ect.... I want my children never to criticize anyone for their beliefs, life styles or choices. Now I would perfer that they do not hang with murders/and law breakers and not to break the laws as such themselves.

We live in a Counrty/Society that allows a lot of Freedom even when we think there is to much control. We may not always agree with all the laws because we are indivduals but we are in a Country that we have a Oppertunity to have them changed.

Change is not always a Bad thing.
I have always believed it is not my job to judge anyone . Time is to short to get hung up on StuFF.

stayathomemom - How is your daughter going to choose regarding God and religion if she is not exposed to it? I'm sorry you had bad experiences with "organized" religion, but there are many good churches out there and my son has some of his best friends and experiences within our church family. Our priest has said "What's the alternative - disorganized religion?" I'm not saying that you should belong to any particular church however if you do believe in God and want your daughter to make an informed decision regarding religion, how are you giving her any information to help her along this journey? I'm just curious. My husband had no exposure in his youth and is not really open to God now.

My father was a Southern Baptist, my mother an Episcopalian. As a child...I went across the street to the 'church' during WWII which met in the Woman's Club Building. I remember the environment well. As I grew...I studied voice...I became a soloist and therefore sang in many different denominations...Eventually attending a Presbyterian oriented college because of my association with the Music Programs beginning in 7th grade choir. Throughout my life, I have studied...thought...attended church...not attended church and watched my sister become 'Born Again' due to the problems in her life...She felt safer within a strong environment which controlled her...which is how I see that enviornment now. Religion is a belief...not a 'given'...People grow and change. I find it offensive to assume that 'atheists', and 'agnostics' are often considered to be bad, wrong and are criticised by those who feel because they have chosen to be religious...they are 'holier than thou'. I am always sceptical of those 'Christians'...I have never seen my own beliefs in terms of being better because I believe. This is a HUGE subject without definative answers. I trust that my family can/will make their own decisions and will find lots of information...anywhere they look...regarding Politics and Religion.

to fattyman - trust me, she's exposed to it. We have Guideposts sent to our house every year thanks to my mother-in-law. We don't talk about "GOD" because its not something that comes up in conversation because its not a relevant issue to discuss. Our daughter knows she is a gift from God, just because she understands it on an inate level. Don't ask me how, she just does. She has been exposed to religion on several occasions two of which were church run preschools - and trust me she remembers both of them very fondly. Like I stated in my earlier reply, if she asks to go to church we will take her and allow her to attend. But in no way will we force her to get up every Sunday morning and go to church. The decision has to be hers and hers alone. Please don't judge me because my choice does not align with yours.

to Katinka - eloquently put. Thank you for your understanding. At least I know I have one true friend here. to fattyman - from your statement about your priest, I take it you are Catholic. I never said I had 'bad experiences' regarding organized religion. I just have never been impressed with how 'Christians' can be so two-faced. I know, I used to be a 'christian' acting in such a way on Sundays and the rest of the week acting as if I'd never attended church on Sundays - only because I was living what I was taught and yes, that is what I was taught. Don't get me wrong, I am still a believer, always have been, always will be, but that does not mean that I have to subscribe to it in a building. I talk to God every day and I thank him (or her) for giving me my daughter late in life. I wholeheartedly believe in the power of prayer. Without it I would not be here.

jbelferi,

There are plenty of ways to teach your child about God without membership in a religious insitution. There is nothing inconsistent in doing so except that you will be consistently judged by people who disaprove of you. Your values and ethics will be questioned and comparisons to the most extreme examples of evil (terrorists) are now routinely made (look at the election). Nothing amazes me more than the lack of true faith displayed by the people who claim that I have none. Methinks they doth protest too much.

You mentioned the last election. Look at what secularism has done to us now. Guess us racists and rednecks who cling to our guns and bibles just have to go along to get along. I feel sorry for any child who sees the behavior of a parent as telling them that if you are a churchgoer you are a hypocrite, definition, (a person who pretends or deceives). Maybe you went to church with Rev. Wright or Phleger, then I could see your vitriol towards people of faith.

sonora,

Much of your post had little to do with mine except for the part about consistency, so I'll address that part.

What I'm saying is that if you believe something true and good and important, you do whatever you can to influence your children towards those beliefs, whether they be deeply held beliefs about hygiene, safety, or God. If belief in God and beliefs about God are not something one firmly believes in and it has little if any relevancy to how one lives their life, then I suspect such a parent would have little interest in influencing their children one way or another in that regard, and this would be consistent with their beliefs. I can see in re-reading the posts that many who subscribe to a laissez-faire approach regarding religion and politics in their parenting are indeed being consistent with their beliefs.

What would be inconsistent is if parents had firmly held beliefs that they felt were good, important, and relevant, but then did little if anything to influence their children towards such beliefs. What also is inconsistent is to negatively judge our own parents or church for trying to influence our beliefs regarding what they see as important and valuable, such as God, while at the same time we try to influence our own children with our deeply held values in other areas. We can go ahead and disagree with certain beliefs and values that were being taught by our parents or church if we disagree with them, but don't fault them for trying hard to influence us with what they firmly held to be true and good and important. That's a parents' job.

I also feel that this job belongs first and foremost to the parents. Because politics and values are so deeply intertwined (politics is essentially the selection and ordering of values), that is why I said at the beginning that it's OK for teachers to share their political beliefs if I agree with them, or at least if I at least know what is being discussed so I can counteract counter-values.

As an example, I would be comfortable with my child's class discussing what a great achievement it is for a black man to be elected president in our country. I would be very upset if there was discussion on abortion that was favorable towards its current legal status; more upset if I wasn't aware it was going on.

As a side note since you brought it up, the most extreme example of evil I can think of is the murder of an innocent, helpless human being. The only thing more evil is to make such murders easier to commit while making unwilling people complicit in them -- such as by lifting restrictions on abortion, making people pay for them with tax money, and using tax money to promote it abroad. (What irony it is that our soon to be president, with his strong pro-abortion record, was himself a product of troubled mixed-race marriage, a demographic more likely to be targeted for abortion today).

Please don't take this as a personal judgment against anyone. I make no apologies for judging others' beliefs and ideas, and expect my beliefs and ideas will also be judged. But I don't judge or condemn anyone here. That's above my pay grade.

semosig,

Guess again....I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. And it was not full of rednecks or Rev. Wright.

jbelferi,

I hold beliefs that are good, important and relevant and I pass them on to my child every day. In what manner I do that and whether that is in the context of organized religion is irrelevant. God is listening and he is everywhere.

(What irony it is that our soon to be president, with his strong pro-abortion record, was himself a product of troubled mixed-race marriage, a demographic more likely to be targeted for abortion today). - Your quote Mr. jbelferi...Mr. Obama is NOT pro-abortion - there's no such thing. He is PRO-CHOICE. There is nothing wrong with choosing and I for one am glad that as a woman I have the CHOICE to abort a child for whatever reason I see fit FOR ME. I am not abdicating that every woman out there gets an abortion because she doesn't want the baby. I am saying, that no one and I mean no one, not even the father of the baby, has the right to tell me, the mother, that I have to or cannot abort my baby. My husband tried to get me to have an abortion when I was pregnant with our first baby (which I ended up miscarrying - which medically termed is a spontaneous abortion, by the way) and I did try on several occasions to set up an appointment, but never succeeded. When I became pregnant with our now 6 year old, I empatically told him I was not aborting this baby, nor would I even try to schedule an appointment. I carried the baby to term, obviously. When I became pregnant a third time, abortion was not even a topic of discussion because my husband knew by then that he would not be able to talk me into having an abortion - so see? I do not agree with abortions in any way, shape or form as a method of birth control. However, I do believe that if there is something significantly wrong with the baby, that it would not survive outside the womb, why force a woman to carry a sick baby to term only to lose it later? Why not allow her to expel it before she gets attached? I think it is morally wrong to have a baby that is not going to survive or have the best quality of life and cost my family heartache, grief and money we don't have to take care of a child that is terminally ill. How fair is that to the child and its quality of life? Unless you have ever given birth to a special needs child and had it die six months later (my husband had a very ill child die at that age and he was afraid I would deliver a sick child too). I told him I was healthy, was not exposed to any diseases and that my first two children from a previous marriage had been born healthy and that our daughter would be ok. And guess what? She is! Imagine that! So...please, please, please, do not sit in judgment of me and my CHOICES.

Hi folks,

When I asked this question a month ago, it referred specifically to an article and a case in New York, I believe. The election is over, this case has been settled, and this topic is still coming up.

Unfortunately, instead of building a community by sharing people's thoughts, it's now turning into a discussion and outright attack of very personal issues well outside the original question.

So I'm going to ask that those that feel the need to discuss this further take it to private messages with each other. I've enjoyed watching people discuss this topic and bring levels to it I had never considered, but honestly, I didn't create this topic to attack other members.

Thanks for your understanding.

The question: When is it OK for teachers to share their political beliefs?

I know it is very difficult to answer this question directly, but be respectful of yourself, the question's poster, and other members, and continue the discussion based on the original question.

You are free to start another discussion on pro-life, pro-choice, presidents-elect, marriages and so.

Best wishes!

This 'question' did turn into something else, but it became a subject which was being discussed with feelings expressed...questions asked, but regarding 'outright attack' of personal issues? I disagree. Yes, the issues are personal, but I don't see anyone saying anything except what is on their minds.
Why, in this place, is it necessary for a moderator to decide what words are chosen...when they aren't swearing, or directly name-calling etc. I, for one, am uncomfortable with an 'educational place'...being censored by topic. Fear and control are unhealthy, in my opinion...when they begin to usurp free speech which is paramount to the learning process. I found people handling the topics very skillfully and when one 'unravels misunderstanding'...by discussion...a great deal can be learned.

Katinka, we're not here to censor topics (unless the language used is racist, homophobic, inappropriate, or an attack on another member--you can read more about those guidelines here: www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/static/terms.html/CA#communityStandards).

We're here to keep discussions on track. Like MagnetMom mentions, this discussion was started to get opinions about whether it's appropriate for teachers to share their opinions on politics with their classrooms. There's no mention of abortion in the original article or discussion.

That doesn't mean we're against a healthy, civil debate about these issues. They just don't belong in a discussion about how teachers talk about politics in the classroom.

You can start a new discussion to talk about what's on your mind--it's only fair to the members who want to use this discussion to talk about the original topic MagnetMom posted.

"What is food for thought is North Carolina would rather vote for a Black Man instead of a Women and I believe they still consider NC a redneck State. ?? isn't that there where that Woolworth's Is?"

What is surprising? In Houston, TX, over 99% of black voters voted Obama. It seems that the republican Martin Luther King said something about judging folks by the content of their character not the color of their skin. What happened?

The last two 'posts', illustrate my point exactly. 'Education'...whether one wants it to be or not...is not add, subtract and multiply! It is exactly what we have been covering here. My own position all along is that if one IS a teacher...opinions about candidates and controversial issues should not be expressed to young children. My job as a teacher was not to debate issues...but to teach skills...including all sorts of anyaltyical reading, language, science and math...Along the way in doing that...the goals of the particular school (public)...should be monitored by the local school board and administration...BECAUSE...they are placed in the position of being in charge. I seem to have returned to my original position, once again. That is, that teachers are educated and trained and should be given the same respect you give to the parents of the children. Teachers are not the 'whipping boys/girls' of the system...They are often treated with disdain by disgruntled people...whether they be parents or other.
Civility in the educational system is sometimes difficult to find...due to the 'crisis-orientation' of society in general. There are negligent, incompetent people everywhere. The 'office of teacher' should still be respected...and changed if doing damage. (Just like in the political arena...We do that so well in that arena...why is it always a 'fistfight' in public education?

Earlier a moderator stepped in to remind everyone that this thread is intended to discuss teacher politics in the classroom. Because these efforts to keep the discussion on track have been ignored, we're closing this thread temporarily.