I simply posted a part of the article and the link. They reported the facts, I passed them on. What difference does it make if the school is 10% or 100% black? Black and disabled kids are getting hit in school by teachers more than other kids. I have a serious issue with that.

I was addressing the article and didn't mean to come off like I was attackng you.

However it actually it makes a BIG difference. If the percentage of blacks at the schools that allow corporal punishement (not ALL schools) is 35.6%, then paddling is NOT being disproportionatly applied to black students. In fact, should the percentage of blacks at these schools be higher than 35.6%, then it would indicate that non-blacks are more llikely to be singled out for paddling.

To include student ratios at schools that do NOT allow paddling skews the numbers.

This is what I think of this it is wrong for any town,city,country,or state to let this go on in the schoolboard.the gov.,schoolboard,principals and staff should be in jail if they allow this to go on.It does not matter what race this is wrong.I would not allow this in my child city and school.thank God this is not in my city.just like HRS put parents in jail for hitting I would make sure my child teachers would not have a job.I would make sure they get prosecuted and sued.This topic makes me sick to even think kids have to go threw this type of punishment from their gov.,and state.this should not be tolerated in no place.I am sure this can be handle different and should be known over the world.I thank the person who did this topic because these people should be prosecuted to the fullest by the law from the WHITE HOUSE.

They can't be prosecuted as it is not currently against the law. The laws need to be changed. Since the laws are local to specific areas, those folks need to contact their representatives and make it happen.

I know what you are saying Kimoco and I appreciate this topic,but it's not all focus on the african americans,this is happening with all race but more with african american and the school board is wrong in doing this punishment,but the worst part is the adults in high offices is allowing this to go on and something should be done about it.I also blame the parents too.if all of them get together something can be done about this.and buckaroo is also right I understand what he is saying to and I agree with him tooo.

AHHHHHHHHHNO!No school or teachers or anyone else shouldnt be hitting our kids and yes the parents need to group together and fight this asap.I wouldnt put up with anyone hitting mine for sure or anyone elses kids for any reason.To me its called child abuse.I didnt know this kind of punishment still exists.When I went to school they were allowed to hit us with a paddle and my parents had a fit especially when most parents dont hit there own kids.What gives anyone the right to hit any kind of kid for any reason? Take it as high as you have to go because as parents were to blame most of the time when the kids arnt behaving in school or else where, but there are situations that you have were we can teach our kids right from wrong and they can still get into alot of trouble no matter what a good parent will do or teach there kids.I totally disagree with anyone being hit by there teachers or anyone else in school.We all hate and talk about bully,s and try to find soulutions and punishments for the partys involved and yet these kids are being hit in there schools!!!!!WHAT!That makes no sense at all because dont we think these kids look at the school,or the teachers who are hitting them as a bully.Yes and there also taught that hitting is the soulution to any other problems they will come across.ITS ABUSE!This needs to be stopped now!Also we shouldnt be giving any school the rights to hit our kids and these kids also can become a abuser later in life as well.History shows that if there being hit by a adult who is supposed to care about them or be there mentor,s they think it is normal and except it from others or become a abuser themselves.How many women and men are in a very abusive relationship or killed in one ? 1every single min .I dont understand what the thinking is still in our world today gives them the right to hit our kids or justify this action !Im appauled to hear this and I hope that you all will get together and end this right away.These kids dont go to school to be hit they go to learn and find out who they are and pave there way to therefutures to the best of there abilitys and it is the responsibility of the parents and the school,teachers to make sure of that!I would love to know what there thinking is behind hitting our kids in our times today!TO me there are none!I urge you all do something about it my parents did and they won and that I was aware of it is illeagal in our schools for any reason .If these kids cant speak up or know what is happing to them is wrong, then you all have to do it for them.This truely makes me really sick to know this and I can tell you I will be looking for the schools who do this.This is truely wrong and how does the teacher feel if someone else is hitting there child? I can say to you they dont and Im pretty sure if there kids were being hit in school I certainly hope they would put it to a stop .ABUSE,ABUSE,SHAME ON THESE SCHOOLS FOR ALLOWING SUCH BEHAVIORS AND ALLOWING IT TO STILL GO ON ! TODAY IN OUR WORLD FOR THESE KIDS TO BE ABUSED BY THERE SCHOOL WHERE THERE SUPPOSED TO LOVE TO GO AND LEARN!SHAME,SHAME.Its also taking advantage of the kids who cant tell anyone !WOW

I absoulutly agree with you 110% I said just about all you did before I read yours.They all should be in jail and let the kids hit them back and see how they like it! You hit the nail on the head!If this were our schools man I can tell you now it wouldnt be pretty! GREAT COMMENT-HOPE

One thing also not mentioned is that many of the schools that allow corporal punishment administer it as an OPTION. The student can choose between being swatted a specified number of times, or doing some other punishment like Saturday School.

Apparently, there are some kids that would rather be swatted three times then lose out on their Saturday.

This story really bothered me, could you tell? LOL

Regardless, I have to say that the parents are obviously not demanding this stop in the states where it is allowed. And it sounds like the folks on this board do not live in the states that allow this.

I understand some kids cause lots of trouble, but there is just something wrong in my view with teachers disciplining them by hitting them.

I am having a very hard time believeing this because I would not tolerate this.channel 4 or 12 need to be brought in this town or city.to me the whole town needs help.I would have to move if something is not done,because I would give my kids permission if the teachers hit you are any staff you have the right to protect yourself and beat the crap out of them,and let me know and I will help my child fight.LOL

Number one, God better hold me back if someone touches my child, I will tell you that! Obviously, this is a situation whose time has come and gone - I am just absolutely disturbed by this revelation and in 2008! Personally, I do not care what sex, race, nationality, or what have you, this is HORRIFYING to hear, no teacher has a right to touch or paddle ANY child! I am almost certain that it is forbidden here in Michigan as well.....it had better be or moms in this state need to put a stop to it.

Thank you for posting this information - I would have never guessed that this was going on in schools, at all anywhere.

Read the article I linked to to learn more. It lists the states.

I am curious, perhaps I missed it but did it say anywhere in the article about mentioning corporal punishment in these school's policy's?

That aside I have to agree that corporal punishment of any kind does not belong in the classroom or the principals office. I feel it is the parents right to choose to discipline their child in that manner.

I don't think no parent in their right mind would agree with this punishment on their child,I would like for each person that put this in law would they want something like this to be when they was a child,I don't think so.The Bible say do unto others as you would what them to do to you.law or no law I would like to visit this town with national tv stations and my kids.I don't think they will touch mine,because The Bible say you reap what you sow and I GARRANTEE THE SCHOOL TEACHER OR STAFF THAT HIT MINE WILL REAP.why not let the parents of these kids that are getting hit by the teachers and principals let their kid be hit by the parents and see will they like that.these people in the school offices are sick,mental,and disrange in the head.they all need to be put in a mental instutition never to be let out in the world.

I would have to agree with you! I definitly dont beleive in hurting someone but when it comes to anyones children I would tell the same thing! Give them back what there giving only by an adult who is there size the hit harder.Sorry I know that sounds horrible but as far as Im concerned not in this kind of case.Whats up with these parents there not doing what they have to for there kids and the other ones? The problem to is some idiot parents allow this with there defenseless kids because they think its ok for them to punish there kids in this manner.They need to be put in the same room and let someone do this to them and you see how fast they have a law suit or worse.What kind of example are they setting for these kids? None and some of them will grow up and hurt others as well and it would be normal to them!This really bothers me it really does!
You go! Take care! [HOPE]FOR ALL 2006]

Corporal punishment is illegal in Minnesota.

I also saw the report on the news. It profiled a preschool child and then interviewed a middle school principal. It appeared that the policy was well known by the middle school students (not that I condone the practice of hitting) but they continuously disrupted classes knowing that a paddle was a possibility.

I would like to see it eliminated in all states but I am pleased it's not happening here.

I agree with everyone here that this kind of behavior needs to stop. I have posted a group that deals with school issues and what occurs when parents drop off their children what goes on behind the school doors.

I worked for a school and seen what takes place. How the teachers interact with the students and how they indeed take advantage of them by yelling, screaming, verbal, mental and physcial abuse.

The one thing that the schools do to protect themselves from parents being out rage is threating them and then having the state take them without warning on school property.

No parent should be afraid of a school that is misusing their child, or having the district covering them because of public would pull their plug in funding them.

The child does not have to be black it is all race that any of these children are subjects for this punishments and it has nothing to do wih what you might think it does it could be the principal having a bad day or does like your child's parent language that is spoken. It could be that of just simple the way your are dress that she or he might not like the color.

Parents are the first to raise the children from birth it is not up to the schools to override your authority in how you have corrected your child unless you have abused them, otherwise it is not why your child is attending school.

Today, parents believe that their child is safe because it is a school. Run by the state and nothing will ever happen to my son or daughter but it has with out knowing because the child is told not to tell what is going on or they will be punished.

The warning signs that your child has been in this type of situation is they become more withdrawn and having nightmares, they become more combative in certain situations and act out.

Change in interest in school, eating habits. Not wanting to go to school in fear that once again they will be punished in some way.

A friend of mine that recently moved to NC sent me a similar article. Corporal Punishment is "approved" in her district.

The policy is frightening. Violence is no way to teach a child. My heart breaks for any kid that is subject to such a punishment.

i'm glad that this issue is finally getting some attention. i am the mom of a 6 year old who was paddled w/out my knowledge or consent. i was p.o'd! i was told i signed a paper for it, which turned out to be the paper you MUST sign ,stating you have read the entire school policy handbook. most people "assume" something like corporal punishment does'nt exist anymore.so, my husband and i thumbed briefly through the handbook,and signed. big mistake, i guess. schools need to be more up front w/this issue, and not be so secretive,and shady about it!

Oh my! I had no idea that this was still legal. What states is it legal in? I'm with you on that. I live in NY so know it's not legal here (unless I'm really ignorant in not knowing if it is but I've never seen it). That's awful and I would not have anyone touching my son. I'd be part of a petition to stop that if there is one.

When I was a kid I went to Catholic boarding school and I was punished with corporal punishment when I did something wrong (both at home and at school). And I disciplined my daughter the same way when she was younger. Trust me, it works, and the kids are no worse off for wear. Actually, I think it's a good thing as long as it is not abused. Kids these days need to have more respect their elders. It's shameful how they treat authority figures and it's all because they know no one can touch them! I say TOUCH THEM!!

The article linked in the initial post has the states info, and other data. More than 200,000 kids have been hit in schools.

Violence of any kind teaches nothing other than teaching kids to hit their kids later on.

You have a right to your opion ,But tell me if one of your kids teachers hit them you wouldnt be angry and do something about it and also I was in a same situation as you growing up and guess what, due to that kind of punishment I am in a wheel chair for the rest of my life plus many more painfull and terrible challanges to deal with due to this kind of corpal punishment! I didnt use that kind of option on my daughter and never layed 1 hand on her and she has grown up into a very smart and talented young women.So Im sorry I seriously disagree with that kind of solution then and now.There is no reason at all to use this way on our kids.what right does anyone have to give this to our kids because we had it? Well I guess thats why we have our own opion's but I'll pray for kids and hope there not dissabled like me and many others because there parents dont have any other tools with there children.I say never hit or hurt a child anyway at all we as parents having our kids need to learn more tools that are so out there instead of putting there hands on them.A mothers hands are supposed to be a touch of love not pain!Sorry this is my opion.There are so many ways to teach our kids and to hit them NO!They copy what there taught!!!!!!!!! Wish you the best with your corpral punishment even though its wrong!!!!! I do agree that there are kids that need to learn more respect but there not ours to teach this .Its there parents job!Any teacher or any other person that would put there hands on mine you bet there would be a big problem because its abuse and if the teacher or whom ever touches another child they, first cant controll themselves and should be fired and go and get alot of help especialy when there handiecaped that is sick they cant control what they do most of the time and whats really sad They cant tell anyone that there being hurt.Just because of someones tital doesnt mean anyone has a right to hurt a child or abuse point blank!!!!There is so much out in our world that we all can do before we choose to lose our control and hurt our kids or someone elses!!!!!!!!!!!! Sometimes we really shouldnt pass on what we were taught and hitting or other is not one I choose to pass on to mine. I feel bad for the ones who think this is the only way to deal with kids or teens,or disabled. GOD DIDNT GIVE US OUR PRECIOUS CHILDREN TO HURT THEM IT IS ABUSE NO MATTER WHY,WHAT THE REASON WAS,IF YOU SLIPPED GO GET HELP!THATS HOW I FEEL AND ALWAYS WILL.IF YOU EVER SEEN A TEACHER OR OTHER PERSON GIVING CORPRAL PUNISHMENT IN FRONT OF YOU WOULD YOU JUST STAND THERE AND WATCH OR WALK AWAY? I WOULD STAND RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT CHILD AND PROTECT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SORRY TO ANYONE WHO MAY GET AFFENDED BUT LOOK AT ALL OF US NOW AS ADULTS HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW THAT WERE HURT BY ONE OF THERE PARENTS AND HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT EVERY DAY OR IS DISABLED FOR LIFE .HOW ABOUT ALL THE POOR KIDS IN THE NEWS WITH THERE PARENTS WHO HIT THERE KIDS AND COULDNT STOP AND KILLED THEM.THATS WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE IT GETS OUT OF HAND SO IM NOT SORRY FOR HOW I FEEL.IM SORRY FOR THESE KIDS!THEY HIT OR WHATEVER AND THEN TELL THERE CHILD LATER [I LOVE YOU!]

Isn't there a difference between "violence" and "corporal punishment"? One depicts "cruelty" and the other a "spanking" (for lack of a better description). Unfortunately, corporal punishment has been abused, and, in some cases, embellished, and that is why we are discussing it here today. In my humble opinion there is nothing wrong with corporal punishment, as long as it does not enter into the realm of violence. And I agree with Kimoco, below, violence can beget violence. Corporal punishment is just that! Not violence!

WELL SAID !!! I absoulutly agree with you! no matter who hits these kids or there own its plain out abuse and it teaches them to hit others later in life and they think its normal.

To some its not abuse and parents go to jail in todays times right so its abuse!Any kind of hitting is abuse! Ask some kids that have been there and what they go through.Also how many kids are in the care of the state and home to home because of ABUSE! from parents who say they love there kids and they were punishing them!

GREAT OPION,Some say there is a differance and there clearly isnt a differance.Abuse is out right wrong! When it comes to this subject Im very opionated on this because it happened to me and im disabled for the rest of my life!Part of my story pg 1.There are so many adults out there like me and I know quit a bit of them and its very sad! I agree with you!110% [HOPE ] LOOKS LIKE WE NEED IT! BE WELL!

I think many of us have been there. In MY day (man, I never thought I'd hear ME say that) corporal punishment in school was a way of life. Was it abuse? Not in my experience. I'm sure it was for others though. Personally, I don't trust schools enough to allow them the power to force corporal punishment.

I found an article (mind you it's a bit dated from 2001) that talks about a voluntary corporal punishment program that was tested out. I do believe there are many districts using this option in states that allow corporal punishment. It's an interesting read.

www.corpun.com/yancey.htm

NOPE There is no differance and you mean to sit hear and tell all of us that you would allow a teacher hit your children and do nothing because its not abuse? It is and any other kind of abuse as well!!!! What you beleive in corpral punishment is not the same to others alot of them! ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is exactly my point!corporal punishment is not that way today as years ago!I agree with you!

Corporal means body, we all know what punishment means.

I just think there are ways to teach, and even punish kids that are more effective than hitting their bodies.

I know not everyone agrees, and think many say it is OK as they were hit as kids and feel they turned out OK. Most do. But some parents get carried away, and teachers are able to lose their tempers too, they are human after all. Some kids grow up thinking their parents do not love them, for why would they beat them if they did? YOu never know what is going through these kids heads if you hit them. They are going to be too scared to even talk if you are not careful!

The potential downsides to hitting kids are just too strong for me to excuse this method of teaching kids right from wrong.

Parents might believe they have a right to hit their kids, but I think it should be a national law that teachers are not allowed to do this. And I hope we as a society grow beyond using this kind of 'punishment' with our own kids for goodness sake.

I guess you are ignoring the voluntary program then.

I am the mom of an adopted child. In Texas it is illegal for anyone, parents included, to use corporal punishment on an adopted child. That goes for foster children as well. I'm not surprised that the African American population receives a disproportionate amount of this type of "discipline". Twenty-seven years ago when I began teaching, I was appauled when I witnessed the paddling of a first grader that nearly lifted the child off the ground. I never sent another child to the office. I would not want anyone paddling my child. I do not believe in it.

here are the states that still allow corporal punishment in schools,INCLUDING PRE K KIDS! AL. AZ. AR. CO. FL. GA. ID. IN. KS. KY. LA. MS. MO. NM. NC. SC. OH. OK. TN. TX. WY. make sure you question the schools policy. you may have to write a letter to the administrator telling them not to administer corporal punishment, and i would have it sent registered mail!

HERE IS ANOTHER INTERESTING LINK ON THE ISSUE OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT www.corpun.com/usscr1.htm

I believe that when an adult hits a child as a form of punishment, it teaches a child to hit. If a child sees that when you do not get your way, you hit to get what you want, it is a learned behavior. Project Construct is a wonderful form of teaching. It teaches children to learn from their mistakes in a constructive manner. I wish more schools could learn this style of teaching. Even though it is targeted at younger ages, the idea is more appropriate than using violence to punish. I do not believe you are teaching discipline when corporal punishment is used. Just like it says, it is punishment, not discipline.

Seahorse--that is a very interesting article. some of the statutes I read are outrageous! Like:

-Alabama law provides immunity for teachers who "use corporal punishment or otherwise maintain order when exercising such authority within his or her local board of education's policy".

-Louisiana: LA. REV. STAT. Sec. 17:223

"Any teacher or school principal may use corporal punishment in a reasonable manner against any pupil for good cause in order to maintain discipline and order within the public schools."

-Oklahoma: OKLA. STAT. Title 21, Sec. 643 and Title 21, Sec. 844

"Provided, however, that nothing in this law shall prohibit a parent, teacher, or other person from using ordinary force as a means of discipline, including but not limited to spankings, switching, or paddling."
"Each school district and each school will have policies, rules, and regulations regarding the administering of corporal punishment".

-South Carolina: SC CODE OF LAWS Sec. 59-63-260

"The governing body of each school district may provide corporal punishment for any pupil that it deems just and proper".

It is legal in Texas for teachers to hit students.

I was raised by parents who believed in paddling,I always thought that it never did me any harm and taught me to respect my elders.Now I have a 5yr old little girl and I have come to realize in spanking her the few times that we have,#1 it makes me feel horrible as a parent,#2 i've realized it doesnt work or help matters in any way.Its caused her to become angry at times and be even more defiant.it also has caused fear in her and that makes me feel horrible also because i never want her to be afraid of me like i was my dad.it caused me to lose confidence in myself,have low self esteem and think that it was normal to strike out when i was angry.I never realized this or remembered why i've felt this way until I started seeing the same behaviors coming out in my daughter,and in this realization it has made me stop and think and stop spanking her and has helped me to become a better father w/ a better relationship w/ my daughter.We let her speak her mind and allow her to share her feelings as long as it is done in a respectful manner.when we punish her now i try not to yell like my father did and while im not perfect @ it its getting better and her behaviors is immensly improving,(less tantrums,better listening)and we are trying other ways now such as standing her in the corner,or taking items or privledges away from her such as toys or tv,or not taking her to the park which is her favorite thing to do,so that she knows that their are direct and immediate consequences for her actions and behaviors while also knowing she has a rght to have feelings and to speak her mind without fear of being spanked or admonished for it like me and my wife were growing up(dont speak unless spoken to)and in doing so her behavior,and her confidence in herself as a person has greatly improved and we have become so much better as parents for it and allowing us to raise her out of love,not guilt.

Well said brianb. I think we were probably raised in a similar way and time frame. I was terrified of my father and have suffered life long low self esteem and confidence. I've never felt comfortable disagreeing or dealing with conflict. I believe those issues stem from the behaviors I learned as a result of the discipline I received growing up. I, like you, never want my child to fear me. I want him to feel free to express his thoughts and ideas. I want him to know I value him and his ideas even if he is only 5 years old. As a result of this method of interaction he is a great negotiator but he also knows I have the final word. I love the fact that he is free to tell me anything and isn't ever going to have to hide bruises like I did growing up.

To brianb you have explained your self very good and I was happy to read your comit.I agree with you 110%.It's good to know we still have some parents that knows how to disapline and love at the same time and keep the relationship with their children open.sometimes a parent can spank,or hit a child and it looses the communication and kids will shut down on a parent if you always spanking them.kids get hit so much it can cause them to be afraid to talk and thats how they get abuse sometime from other adults.glad to read your comit,keep up the good writing.

There has been such strong opinions I'm almost afraid to respond (and no-one has hit me). Before I say where I stand I'm curious to know if anyone's a teacher, school admin, any family members in education? I have experience working with children within school districts and social services. I do not believe corporal punishment should be an option for anyone other than parents. I believe there is a HUGE difference between physically punishing your child and Abuse. Ex. Spanking the hands of a child who's trying to stick a fork in a socket (who does not understand the concept of electricity and the damage it causes) vs. causing spinal injuries to a kid who's maybe broken a glass at the dinner table. There are certain authorities that I believe are solely parental. Corporal punishment in school is unacceptable; however, has anyone noticed what's going on in the schools? Kids are out of control and fear no-one! In a local high school a security guard had his jaw broken by a student. Teachers are being chased through school parking lots by students who look like inmates from an episode of Prison Break and the latest Rap Video. Parents and their authority is the only deterent to certain behaviors, my opinion is that when the option of corporal punishment is removed from the parent then a free for all takes place not just in school but in society as well.

In my humble opinion, using hitting kids as a way to punish may not cause 'spinal injury' yet still be very harmful to the kids.

As others here have mentioned who grew up being hit, emotional problems are often a result, not only physical.

As for the (mostly) Jr and High School students being out of control, I hardly think a 'spanking' is appropriate anyway, especially if they are already acting violently!

There is no easy solution to the problem with kids who are over the top disruptive, or violent. The causes are so many and not the same for each kid that teachers and parents need to work together on assuring no student is 'ruining it' for the rest of the class.

Oh, and if I see a kid sticking a fork in an outlet, I would explain why it is not a good thing to do. HItting them is not going to teach them, nor treat them like a human, again, this is my opinion not an insult to anyone else who thinks otherwise. I just grew up with parents who never explained WHY I should not do certain things, and I would never do that to anyone else.

I agree with alot of what you said and the 1 I dont agree with is the part with the spinal injuries ,I was severely injured growing up and I am severaly disabled because of there actions that I in no way deserved I was a innocent little kid growing up with angry parents who were abused themselves and passed it to us only in my case out of the 4 of us kids IM the only 1 who didnt pass it to mine in any way and it took alot of hard work to get counciling ect.I really dont want to go into all details but hitting kids for any reason is abuse and can cause major physical and mental trauma that can result in a life time of hel- unless there willing to work on it and what has happened to them.Getting help is a must no matter how strong you are. A physical injury can occure by accident and cause alot of pain in many aspects so as a survivor and someone who helps alot of younger adults who have been disabled because of there parents so for me its a very differant world for me and the people I help today.So Yes someone definitly can be severly hurt in both ways. This has to stop and I wouldnt had know this was still aloud in so many states and I will look into it to because that is my life to help other s who suffer because of there parents,teachers,ect.I think its awfull this is still going on.Thankyou to the person who has brought this out to all of us.Good Luck in this up coming school year and I hope and pray that knowone else gets injured like we are!!!! In case your wondering how my spinal injury occured besides the obvious that I already told ,I didnt clean the toliet right and I was pushed into the lip part in the front of it and my vertabra's collapsed in 4 areas of the lower back and i have been in a wheel chair ever since.They did try to fix them with our newest tech but they collapsed again so yes you can accidently can be severly injured for the rest of your life by someone who hits,pushes,or abuses in anyway. So my life is quit tuff but so am I and as it gets worse as I get older it is very hard but I concentrate on my kids and my life now and help others to learn how to do what I have been doing for a long time now.I can also tell you Im a lpn for 12 years and had to stop what I worked so hard for because of removing bone spurs that were wrapping around my spinal cord so my DR.S instructed me to resign from my job that I worked really hard to get and loved dearly but I still continue no matter all the pain Im in help others who have been injured like me.Please dont get me wrong I just wanted you to know that this does happen and it can be the worst thing to happen when your suppose to have your whole life ahead of you.Others cant deal with it .I couldnt either its hard to forgive that person who is supposed to love you ,hug,guide,kiss you,and there hands are supposed to embrace a child not hurt and disable them.But this does happen! I dont want to offend anyone I just shared a portion of what can possibly happen and hitting or any other form like. It should be illeagal anywhere to anyone!!!!! Take care all .I hope that you will see things a little differanly in this subject. Take care !
[HOPE] [HOPE FOR ALL 2006]

I wonder how all of you parents that are so agianst corporal punishment would like for your teachers to handle improper behavior from your child. Call you at work to come take care of the situation maybe? I do believe in corporal punishment as one tool in a parent or school's methods bag. However, no one way of disciple or punishment (and yes I do believe there are instances when discipline is past and punishment is required) will work for any child for everthing. I also strongle believe that no parent or teacher can effectively discipline or punish a child without first having the respect of that child at the very least. You get that respect by giving it. The difference with the parents and teachers who use corporal punishment effectively are that they respect the children, have positive and well established expectations of the children and demonstrate that they are consistent and caring to that child (giving postivie feedback and encouragement for things not done right but A for effort and redirection on how to improve) on a continous basis. I don't hear any conversation in any of these posts about the whole picture and I don't see any one part of parenting or being an authority figure as only one aspect of the picture. I never got a spanking in shcool. I did have to stand in the corner in first grade and it was so humilating to do in front of the whole class. For me -it was worse than being taken out in the hall and getting a paddling.

campdg:

You ask, " wonder how all of you parents that are so against corporal punishment would like for your teachers to handle improper behavior from your child. "

Corporal punishment is not allowed in my state. I'm not sure all of the methods that teachers use, but clearly most of them can manage their classrooms without spanking, paddling, humiliating their students. I suspect part of their bag of tricks include:
*creating an environment of respect and trust
*expressing and upholding clear and consistent routines and expectations
*Engaging students

Clearly some students are difficult to handle. I can imagine how frustrating it can be for a teacher to devote classroom time to discipline issues.

But, classroom management is a major aspect of the job. If a person does not have the skills and competencies to successfully manage students without using violence and humiliation, they should seek another career.

First and foremost, do no harm. In my opinion (and in the opinion of most experts) there is no way that corporal punishment can be used "effectively".

I find it appalling too that children would be hit. The school I teach in in NY is 98% poor and 88% Black and you constantly hear some teachers screaming at the children (which I think is just as appalling as hitting) and they are always yelling about how they are so thrilled their going to get their butt whooped at home. I've also heard the children being called racial slurs.

I can imagine the same maltreatment being used for special needs children, sad, but nevertheless I can sick some sick person doing that.


If a teacher needs to hit it means nothing more than that she has poor class management skills and is not aware enough of the children's cultures.

I don't care how many times a teacher has to call me for my child.I don't won't nobody hitting my children because everybody don't hit the same,and I don't care who it is,some people hit out of anger and men hit harder then women do.some kids you don't have to hit and some people like to hit and don't talk first.I believe in talking first and then punish by taking previleges away.I don't like bruses and some people leave bruses on kids.I am just going to put it like this everybody is not normal some teachers get care away and hit kids for other reasons like for control to mental abuse and sex abuse.all teachers are not good ok.I would suspend the child and let the parent have to deal with their own kids,and if a teacher has to call 10 or more times on a parent job I believe a parent will displine their own kids because they will get tired of the calls.I know my child, and a lot of teachers don't get to know their students they are just their for the money.so everybody in my book is not capeable of hitting my child and if I was a teacher I would not hit nobody child,because I know what I would do and I would not want nobody sueing me.listen teachers some parents will bruse their children when they know a teacher has hit them just to sue you for money.Don't misunderstand I am not talking about all teachers only the sick ones that loves to hit kids,because I do know we have some very good teachers and a good teacher would not hit a child.

Interesting.


I think you and the other lady could come to a mutual agreement and say while white children may be paddled more according to statistics, Black children are paddled for less serious behavior problems and many White teachers do not feel comfortable with Black students.

I agree strongly with your post.

I recommend reading The First 6 Weeks of School.

I'm in Arizona, apparently it's still legal here. I do know that the schools that generally do this are private with some sort of religion in the foreground of their teaching.

I went to schools in both Arizona and Arkansas. There is a giant contrast between these two states even though they both allow corporal punishment. Arizona is not a religious fundamentalist state and Arkansas is. So the private schools (and in Arkansas even some public schools allow it), were more brutal and abusive ranging their punishments from paddling that left bruises to whipping that left scars to hardcore exercise while they deprived us of oxygen by holding a hose over our faces during the punishment as well as public humiliation and unfair treatment. And in many cases punishment was unwarranted for behavior that was unproven or for made up reasons just to make examples of some of us. We kids called CPS many times and they would do nothing.

Arizona simply would take the kids outside the classroom and give 3 swats, which were more of an embarrassment than anything because the other kids knew you were getting them. The worst part was going home, because I'd get literally beaten at home if I got swats at school in Arizona (still not as bad as being in a Christian Boarding School in Arkansas though!).

There have been some incidents with those "camps" that parents send their bad kids to here in Arizona. Those places sounded like the school I attended in Arkansas, and some sounded worse. Some kids died in those "camps". Those places were allowed to use corporal punishment and not surprisingly were often religiously based (not always though).

It seems that religion and corporal punishment go hand in hand which is why it doesn't surprise me that the deep south still has so much of this happening there.

What does surprise me however, is the level of ignorance of these people that they would beat children who have learning, developmental or behavioral disabilities. THAT's truly saddening to me, and angering actually. And no matter what religion someone is a part of, the fact that they would allow this to happen to these kids *especially*, is a huge problem for me.

Child_Of_Ra,
I am *so* sorry that this happened to you! There is *no* love in what was done to you. I really hate to hear about children being mistreated in the name of "religion" or anything else. I am Christian. And I guarantee you that the treatment that you received was criminal...and had NOTHING to do with love. I hope that it didn't keep you in pain in your life.

Hugz,
NV

NowVoyager you are so right,and what you wrote is very good.I agree with what you wrote on this page.

kids should not get hit regardless !!! if a teacher EVER HITS MY CHILD she will be hearing from my lawyer

I have read more about this online, and it seems that all the medical associations say hitting does not help. In fact it can backfire and end up causing withdrawn, violent, or possibly end up with other behavioral issues in school and at home.

I'll take the experts word for this along with my personal experience .

I'm strongly against teacher hitting students... or hitting at all... I really believe that through communication, patient is the answer... How do we expect positive results if we act out of rage and we're adults...Hello teachers!!!!

I am apalled at the idea of corporal punishment in school systems. I work in an elementary school (15 years) and would never consider hitting a child as a consequence for inappropriate behavior. All that does is show that big people can hit little people and get away with it. It is not OK to hit anyone because you don't like what they say or do. As an adult you would go to jail for this. Thankfully Michigan has laws in place saying it is illegal for teachers, staff, principals, etc. to hit, paddle, or swat a student or anyone!

I say hitting is abuse.How can a state put parents in jail for hitting their kids and turn around and give teachers and the school staff permission to hit our kids.if HRS can do this to parents,why can't something be done to these states that aloud this to go on in their schools.I blame the president,the gov,and school board,and anybody else that let this go on in our world.this is sick and these people need to be taken to court and justic need to be serve on all who aloud this to go on in these states.

I have to laugh at our ineffective government. They spend so much time on useless red tape creations like no child left behind. Yet they can't get rid of an old useless laws that endangers our children. It's unbelievable.
As far as religion, What ever happened to do no evil? As far as I am concerned this type of abuse is absolute evil. No wonder our society has such negativity going on.

Deborah,
Parents don't go to jail for spanking their kids. Beating? Yes. Spanking? NO!

parent's don't go to gail for spanking but it can trigger a DCF investigation into the family if it is reported accurately or inaccuratly. That typically results in the children being taken away for a period of time so the family can be evaluated. Once the children are back in the home there can also be re-evaluations periodically depending on how gung-ho the person evaluating is.

CPS can get involved for the most minor or blown-out-of-proportion of reasons.

For instance, the downstairs neighbor of my cousin-in-law, who incidentally hated children, called CPS because the 2 yr old was screaming (she had gotten soap in her eyes in the tub).

My C-I-L, who was never an immaculate housekeeper, but was also never a filthy person, had dirty dishes in the sink, a soaking pot of burned mac and cheese (not a good cook either!) on the counter and a stack of CLEAN clothes on the sofa to put away when CPS showed up. The dog was barking, the 2 year old was sick with chicken pox by then (it took them a few weeks to actually get to her house), and the phone was ringing (it was me calling!)... CPS thought she was a risk and decided to pop in once a month for 6 months.

This all because a nasty neighbor decided he was sick of hearing her kids run around above his house. I know this, because I lived in the Townhome complex and he was talking to my Grandmother-in-Law (unaware that she was the grandmother to my CIL!) and told her what he'd done!!! He did it on purpose thinking he could get rid of her and her kids because he hated them (admittedly).

So anyone can abuse the system, and sadly, it happens, and sadly karcip is right, the person doing the evaluating can get all gung-ho and out of control.

I know first hand, that my CIL, while young, naive and inexperienced in certain areas of life, cares about and loves her children and has made a good life for them.

buckaroo,excuse me but yes a parent or teacher or any adult can go to jail just for spanking a child.if bruses are left on a child they can be prosecuded.everybody don't spank light,some people are heavy handed.some kids are very easy to bruse,and if HRS comes into a home or school and see a mark,or welp you gone.I've seen it happen to,tooooooo many adults.I have a relative it happen to them.I know a teacher that spank my son on his hands and my son came home and told me about it,he kept saying mom my fingers hurt,and I ask him why.thats when he told me about his math teacher spank his hand.this happen when he was in the 3rd grade.first I talk with the teacher and she admitted just spanking my son on the hand.the fact that she told the truth I did not push the issue,but I did tell her if she touch my son again I will see her in court,because my son knuckels was sore because his math teacher spank him on his hands.my son and daughter is very easy to bruse and I sign the school papers every year not to put your hands on my kids.from then own the schools have called me when my kids missbehave,and I punish my kids.sometime they have wrote 5 hundrend times I WILL RESPECT MY TEACHER IN THE CLASS ROOM and I make them show the teacher and sign it to bring it back home to me.there are a lot of ways to discipline and spanking,hitting,is not my way of doing things,and now teachers always tell me I have respectable and good kids in their classrooms.

This is appalling! How can a stranger be able under the law to hit our children, and we get reported if we even scream at them.

I always believe my child, if my child tells me that a teacher hit her, I would have the teacher's job. I would go to the highest court for my child.

I had 2 older children with dissabilities, and I investigated every complaint from them, I was not about to let them be hurt by a stranger.

My child now is not dissabled, and whenever she tells me something, I inmediatelly go and investigate, and get it resolved, that's just me. Teachers are people too, we are not in the old age, where people were hurt because of their color, or procedency, or place in society.

Teachers has no right to hit any child.they can send the child to the office,or call the parents.it is better to deal with the parents.

WELL I THINK PADDLING AT SCHOOLS MIGHT HAVE BEEN OK BACK IN THE DAY, WHEN THE COMMUNITY WAS REALLY IN A JOINT EFFORT TO RAISE AND DISCIPLINE OUR CHILDREN PROPERLY. NOW THERE IS SO MUCH ABUSE AND NEGLECT GOING ON BY THOSE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TRUST THE MOST, THAT YOU CAN NEVER BE TO SURE ABOUT THE MOTIVE OR INTENT OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS. SO I AGREE, THERE SHOULD NOT BE PADDLING.

Parents go to jail for abuse not spanking. To removing children from their home abuse has to be present. From the NJ DYFS perspective:
9:6-8.9. ABUSED CHILD; CHILD ABUSE DEFINED
For purposes of this act:

"Abused child" means a child under the age of 18 years whose parent, guardian, or other person having his custody and control:
a. Inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon such child physical injury by other than accidental means which causes or creates a substantial risk of death, or serious or protracted disfigurement, or protracted impairment of physical or emotional health or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ;

b. Creates or allows to be created a substantial or ongoing risk of physical injury to such child by other than accidental means which would be likely to cause death or serious or protracted disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ;

Injury or bodily injury is damage or harm caused to the structure or function of the body caused by an outside agent or force, which may be physical or chemical. A severe and life-threatening injury is referred to as a physical trauma.

Deenice, you're talking about children being permanently taken away aren't you? I can tell you that as a required reporter we are taught the proceedure involve so that we can weigh our decisions carefully. If there is an accusation made a child will be taken away first and then the accusations will be investigated. The thought process is to take the child away from a potentially abusive situation and investigate when the child is "safe". Act first, ask questions later.

As far as jail. Yes, you do not go to jail for spanking, but if a complaint is made against you, you can be arrested and detained until the accusations are supported or discounted or until bail is set. Where do you think you are detained? Maybe a differentiation needs to be made between going to jail and being detained for investigation.

Wow, that NJ law makes it sound like it is OK to hit your kid as long as it does not threaten death or organ failure. Sounds like the DOJ's initial opinion of torture!

All I got to say,all you adults that think it's ok to hit your kids and other kids,I hope you think twice before you do it,because you can in up in jail,or should I use another word forJAIL.HIT MY KIDS YOU WILL BE GOING TO JAIL I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE.teacher,school staff member,next door neighbor,family,or friends,what ever a cell or jail you will be living in if you hit my kids.

Deborah,
Are you living in a state that allows corporal punishment in schools?

I am not advocating anything in fact I agree, Don't mess with my children because I will own you. but what I am trying to do is make a differentiation. Going to jail and being arrested are two different things. Either way there is too much of a double standard in corporal punishment states where the teachers can do it but the parents can't. If a two year old goes to put their hand in a light socket or stick a pen in are you going to sit there and reason with that 2 year old or are you going to swat their hand away from it and explain later. I don't know about you but my 2 year old doesn't listen to reason.

Deborah, you have to realize that there are many parents out there that are naive enough to believe that the system still works. Hitting does not work, all it does is degrade a child and decreases self esteem. Yet many parents believe that it is effective. Ultimately,that is their choice, even though it doesn't make it right.

buckaroo it does'nt matter where I live.I would not put up with this,teachers hitting my kids.I would get other parents to help me fight it.Me as a parent and I know I am not the only one I would not tolerate this type of behavior.I started to ask you are you a teacher? do you believe in teachers hitting your kids? but I guess it really does'nt matter.the only thing that matters is I believe most parents don't won't nobody hitting their kids even if it's another kid.

The stores have things to stick into electric sockets for small kids.parents buy all kind of things, they can buy the protection,that there living place can be safe for toddlers.here's another example certain things like clorox,cleaning products can be lock up or put up in a higher cabinet.we are parents and we need to find and think of other ways to protect our kids,and there are many ways if we use or mind or should I say our brains.please understand what I am saying here,and I am on your side.I don't believe in hitting students.

Deborah, Where did cleaning products come in???? My 2 year old can pull those things out and get into our child proofed cabinets. I use only non-toxic products in my home, the ultimate in child proofing.

Don't muddy the point. I am not out to start an arguement and if you read my contribution I actually was agreeing with you.

This is my last comment on this page.If I could not change this,I would move out of these cities,and the state.because this is not right,and I would never agree with this or nobody hitting my kids.and I don't like the fact that this is happening in other places to other students.

I think this is a great post in that it brings up a big concern for lots of parents and it's something every parent can relate too.

Unfortunately I think we strayed away from the subject matter into a much bigger pool of concern; child safety in general.

Of course child safety is prevalent on every parents mind but that (in a general sense) is not what the original post was talking about.

Lets get back on topic : Corporal punishment in schools and the fact that it could be racially motivated.

Do not let this important topic (and great post) die off because a personal disagreement took over for a minute.

Right on!

Yes, I've noticed this myself that Black children are hit more or screamed in the face at more, and btw I teach in NY where you CANNOT hit students.
When it comes to White children being screamed in the face at or hit, it's always a poor child.

People focus on the high minority rate in prisons, but I look at the economic rate. Most prisoners (of all colors) come from poverty. Children being hit come from poverty.

I am dealing with this problem my son is in 5th grade and the teacher is hitting him (he is white)this is a problem for anyone who is being hit .

Reasons not to spank

Plain Talk About Spanking
nospank.net/pt2009.htm

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm