Hmmm, icould it be that maybe you have a problem with the particular school your child is in? For any school, I think it is importance to do research and make sure you are comfortable with your cildren in that particular school....but to make such a blanket statement...well, it is just ridiculous!! I went to a private school, and when tested in public school system...I tested out for 3 grade levels higher than the public school system...Not all private schools are the same....it doesn't matter how much you are or are not paying for the education; I have learned that it is important to do some research for yourself!!

I agree with this post. I have two kids in California public schools and 1 child in a private religious school in Texas. My kids in public school are being taught higher quality curriculum than the child in private school. Our public school principal has his PhD- our teachers all have degrees- their are alot of parent volunteers and other resources available (reading, math, speech specialists)-- My child at the private school in Texas - well his teacher has no teaching credentials- she has poor grammar herself - is not familiar with the Internet-- does not communicate with me very well- and I feel like he is not getting a quality education. The school is not accredited-- I am wondering if their is a way to report bad private schools- any suggestions? Or is it that private schools can just do whatever they want and teacher whatever they want?

Wow. Definately a glass half empty view. I guess I was expecting some balanced information. Like other families in a non denominational private Christian school may not have be operating from a Biblical World view, though they are professing Christians. Little of those comments are accurate from my experiences.

My child has been in private school since kindergarten and I've seen some of the issues listed, especially the "favoritism".
Overall though, I see more parents involved in their child's education, more of a sense of community and the students seem to display more respect to the teachers, school property and to other’s in general.
This is not saying the private school kids, parents, and teachers are perfect; not at all. A lot depends on the administration of the school and how curriculum and policies are decided.

Private schools can give a more personalized attention to a student, for example:
1) If the school is aware of a student's financial, familial or personal hardship, the school will get involved to help that student and their family.

2) If a student is continually displaying actions outside of their normal behavior, they are counseled and helped.

3) Parents are informed immediately if the student is missing an assignment, project or is absent from class. Many schools provide the academic average for each class via a private login session and are updated daily.

Conversely:
1) A student can be easily labeled after only one incident or very high expectations can be placed on legacy students (e.g.: "Your brother/sister/mom/dad was my best/worst student. Should I expect the same from you?")

2) Those with high academic standings are expected to consistently perform well, regardless of the subject.

3) The extra-curricular programs are funded by parents and by fundraising activities, which your child may be required to do.
Most activities require purchasing the school logo warm-up clothing, mandated shoes and equipment. Costs for these add up very quickly.
Some activities require parents to provide travel to and from “away” games.

Choosing to send your child to a public or a private school is a decision based on many factors, including the child's overall personality and academic abilities. Most private schools do not offer robust remedial or any special education classes.
You will pay a tuition that will probably increase each year; though many private schools help needy families to meet the financial obligations and some schools offer full scholarships.

Again, there are many positives and negatives in choosing a private school over the public school. Compare the schools, meet with the administrators, attend a PTA meeting. That way, you may also speak with parents of children attending the school and maybe get a better perspective.

I agree with rhaspc, I felt less secure with my kids in public schools, well depending on the school, my kids went to a public school in Texas, I felt that my kids were going to be safe, I like how the schools are designed, they are surrounded by the school walls with some entrances but they keep them lock all the time, no one can come in thru the fields. The only way is by passing infront of the office, there is no way someone cannot be seen, they have cameras and plus no parent or other person is allowed unless is reported at the office with proper ID. And at the end of the school day, when picking up the kids, every parent has a given number that is monitored by teachers at the time of picking up your child, no matter if you are walking or by car, you have to have that number with you,which match with the kid they have to pick up. We moved to California and the system here is completely different, public school are completely open, everyone can get thru the fields or the front doors because the office is far inside, anyone can get the kids, no teachers are nearby the kids checking who is taking the kids, you only see teachers at the parking lots making sure that cars don't go inside the the curb to pick up kids, because they only allowed buses on the curb, I feel scare if I be late to pick up my kids.

Reading your comments...have 3 kids in private school for a few yrs...I don't agree with most of what you wrote. My kids are doing great, and it is not a drive and drop school. We have a great sense of community or should I say extended family. I felt less secure with my kids in public school. The education has been great.

My daughter is in a private school and I went to private schools. What they do have to offer out weights public schools everyday. Just like with everything there is good and bad, but I dont think it's right to make such a blanket statement such as this.

Maybe some private schools are that way, but, I don't think all of them. I was in a private school and it wasn't nothing like that. Teachers were focusing mainly in kids that were left behind. Bulling was not tolerated, no matter what. Students do fund raisings to accomplish for any activities they want to do, like for Valentine's Day, so they can buy carnations, cookies, roses, so other students can be able to send to their best friends, to have a Halloween party at someone's house, school dances, etc. That is what it was like.

Add you say all of this based on what ?

This may shock you, but this person knows what they are talking about.

"8. Private schools are racially homogeneous, promoting ignorance about and prejudice toward other races. - There are close to a dozen different nationalities and almost as many religions at my daughters school. Being an independent school they can talk about their divers religious beliefs with out problems."
It goes above racism.
I was beaten up in a private school for being gay

9. Bullying is more of a problem in private than in public schools. Public schools have zero tolerance for bullying. Bullying by children whose parents contribute financially to the school is often tolerated in private schools. - On admittance to this school you sign a contact of citizenship. Behavior such as you describe isn't tolerated. It's fine to say that public schools have a zero tolerance policy but in reality it's just that, a policy. One of the reasons our daughter is going to an independent school is the lack of behavior control at public schools."

THIS IS VERY TRUE

"1.Private school teachers are less qualified, less educated and less experienced than public school teachers. They are often parents who have lost their day job, or nursery school teachers promoted beyond their experience. - Every teacher at my daughter's school is fully accredited. They are teaching at an independent school because they have more of a voice in the education process there than they did at a public school."

TRUE

"7. Private schools are often so far in debt their main focus is fund raising, not education. - Yes, the school has fund raisers but they are not in debt and they have no more fund raisers than public schools now have."

VERY TRUE

never though about that!

Whoa! Those are some very strong accusations! Yes, some private schools have serious shortcomings, but that is why parents need to do careful research before approving to send their child to any school. It has been my experience that there are some exceptional private schools in this great nation of ours! While it is true that many private school teachers do not have the same credentials as public, there are many that are highly qualified and credentialed professionals.
It has also been my experience that most parents of children in private schools are extremely involved and care no less deeply for their children than any other parents.

Please do not cast a broad blanket of judgement based on limited information.

For the record, I teach in a public school. This is my 23rd year.

Private Schools would not survive if even one of ColeValleyMom's points were true. Each and every parent at a private school chooses to be there and could very quickly leave if they do not get what they want and the school would close. Is she bitter because her child was thrown out of a private school?

Exactly, Miltrez. I agree 100% with your post. When it comes to private schools, you have a choice, and you should exercise that choice. Our school has teachers who are obviously very dedicated to their positions, given the fact that they earn less money than the public school teachers around here. And they will tell you themselves that they wouldn't leave to teach at a public school and earn more. Some have left and they came right back the following year. I think that says a lot. But of course, this is my area of the country and our state is ranked so close to the bottom nationally that it is embarassing to even admit it. I will say that the public school my kids could attend (and did, for about 4 months) is better than most in the immediate area, but it still isn't what I want for my children. You just have to do your research, and make your own decision based on what is available in your area. I am so glad that no one seems to have taken the list colevalleymom posted as fact. It certainly could be true of a particular private school, but it is not true of all private schools by any means.

The Bottom line is for private schools funds are not guarntied. If the parents are not happy the pull their kids and the school looses money. Private schools are much more accountable for their actions for that very reason. If a public school parent is not happy they cannot say I'm pulling my funding. Teachers in private schools are providing a paid service to their students and parents who are in a way their customers. Parents tend to be more involved due to the fact they actually see their money going into the school. Also they tend to receive more individualized attention because the school would not exist without them. Even when a child is on scholorship the parents feel the same due to the work they invested into getting their child that scholorship. Please keep in mind that not all private schools are the same that is why it pays to check them out before choosing one.

It's not true that all private schools have more kids in the classes. Most private schools in our area have a much lower student/teacher ratio than the public schools. Ours is 12/1, the public schools are twice that. It all just depends on the school.

I studied in a private school, but I didn't feel they were hidding something, they were always letting my parents know about how I was doing, if there was a problem, they communicated with parents, if your grade became low, they let the parents know, so parents can request a parent and teacher conference, to make sure those grades go up, I felt that teachers were doing a good job, they were respectfull towards the students no matter if a kid was disrespectful, they try to deal with him or her in a positive way. Yes is true that private schools have more students in there classes but, teachers tried to make sure that everybody learns and catch up, and also that they are very strict in discipline but with control.

Wow! Is this a list of myths about private schools or what? Every single point on it is the complete opposite of what my kids' private school is like.

Hi everyone,
I live in the Meridian Mississippi area and my child attends a predominently white private school in which all the teachers are also white. There is only one other race in his class and he happens to be an african american. I am looking for a more diverse elementary school in the Mississippi area. Can anyone help?

This is a really sad note you started. How can one person speak for so many things that are not black and white. I would love to sit and debate with you regarding your statemetns adn I say statemetns because facts it can not be called because they are not. There are different walks of private schools. Mine for example pre-K - 12th grade has 100 students roughly enrolled. The high school students scores are much much higher then the national average as well as the state. Many of our highschool students are dual enrolled at the community college and are graduating college before they graduate high school by 2-3 months. Each school needs to be investigated by a parent looking to enroll their children. Not just a personal thing but look at facts numbers and get a feel of the teachers and become involved in school activities. There are limits on my schools class sizes. I am keeping both of my children in the school they are in especially after I considered all schools public or private in my town. The pyublic schools scared me with the numbers of the students in their classrooms as well as the cracks not being filled in but growing larger. Mine aren't going to fall through any as long as I keep up on the facts and going on at the school my children attend. But, please don't be so black and white and check and make sure that your views have facts to back them up.

I'd be interested in where some of the people who talk about how great their public schools are live. In California because of budget cuts there isn't a lot of "richness" or "diversity" in the public schools. Programs like music and art are being dropped at a large number of schools and if the governor's budget proposal passes the situation will be even worse. Also in public schools, because they need to teach every child, you end up with classes like those in our school district where half of the children don't speak English well, if at all. This doesn't mean that the independent school my daughter attends isn't ethnically or racially diverse. There are children several different ethnicities in her class of ten. It just mean that the parents have to care enough to make sure the child speak English to attend the school. There is also the following comment below "snobbishness and bigotry sell" Since when do these two words apply to wanting the best education you can get for your child, even if you have to make sacrifices to get it. I don't make comments about parents who send their children to public schools being bad. Why is it OK to cast aspersions on a parent who wants something better?

I don't know why there is a sense that private schools have something to hide or that they are good at it. Infact in my youngest childs school there is even a camara in the room that parents can view them at any time. I get financial reports on a regular basis and I don't mean a summary I get the same ones that are reported to the government. I think that some are maybe have formed their opions off of TV which is not real life to say the least.

As far as second rate education I don't even see how that can be claimed. Last year at our school the lowest ACT score was 25 the average was 29 and the highest was 33. The national average ACT score is close to 21 and the public school in our area has an average of 20.5. So my choice is between an average of 20.5 and 29.

A big factor for me is also culture learning. In the public high school in my area the only second language taught in the schools is Spanish, which is not started until 9th grade. At our private school there is a choice of five languages. The first language taught is usually Spanish which starts in Kindergarden. My daughter is fluent in 3 languages now English, Korean, and Spanish.

Now I know what your think we are just Snobs. Well you would be wrong there. We are just making serious sacerfices for our kids. How serious well for starters not a single member of our family has a cell phone nor do we have cable TV and our internet is paid for by my husbands work. These three items alone have paid for our sons tution. As for our daughters we pack a sack lunch every day for work instead of going out and we only eat out once a month. We usually buy all our clothes second hand and watch where every dollar we have goes. If you think we are not the norm again there you would be worng. The school even lets us know the average household income of the parents and we are just about at that average. I suggest you take a look at some of the private schools in your area and see what you think. There are good ones and bad ones so if you first pick a bad one keep looking.

Bitter are we? :)

Snobbishness and bogotry? I suggest you look within.

Actually problems with private schools are quite common, but private schools are great at covering up. Of course private schools are succesful businesses, as we all know snobbishness and bigorty sell.

Sounds like you've had a bad experience with private schools. But rest assured, if this has been your experience, it is relatively rare. In fact, if it WERE true, they would put themselves out of business.

Most of the private schools here are VERY good. The teachers are certified, there are few behavior problems.... in fact, one of the benefits of private school is that they don't HAVE to take you. If your child has a behavior problem, they can choose to remove them from the school. Thus, I am willing to bet there are more kids with problematic behavior at the public schools. But I digress....

Class size varied from school to school, as it does in public school. But as far as parent participation, the parents at private school are VERY motivated and are involved in the school. They are, after all, financially invested in the school, so it is in their best interest to help out.

But more logically, if private schools were as bad as you say, people would stop sending their kids there and they would go out of business.

Personally, I wish the voucher system were enacted so people were given more choice as to which school their child attends. To turn around one of your statements, what does the PUBLIC school have to hide from?

I couldn't agree more. Having attended both private and public, it's hard to believe any one would consider private. The public school cirriculum is so much richer, the community much warmer and more inclusvie, tolerant and democratic. However, giving credit where credit is due, the private schools do a much better sales job.

I've had my children in private school collectively for over 10 years and changed to public school. After seeing the difference in facilities, academics, extracurricular, administrative support, and the list goes on and on I would NEVER switch back to private school.

I myself attend a private school, and if your child actually attends a private school than you would know half of that "info" is totally not true.

Would totally disagree with the above. It is all relative and depends on what you are looking for. Everyone of my son's teacher's has a teaching degree with further education( master's in teaching)Class ratio is smaller than the public school. Bullying is not tolerated and is in fact discussed at the beginning of the school year and presented in written form to take home, review and sign(print) a contract stating bullying will not be tolerated and if you see someone being bullied and do not report it, you(your child) is just as responsible as if he did the bullying himself. Parents are expected to be part of the education process. Responsiblity for one's own actions with consequenses is taught.

I could go on and on. As a parent, you must sit down and decide what your families priorities are in obtaining an education. What values do you have? Who do you think should be instilling the values? You? the teachers? a combination? It's a very litigious society and unfortunately, public school education is driven by who will hire a lawyer..sad but true.

Hmm I'm not sure where you obtained your information but I have a feeling it may be just a local problem in your area. At my sons private school receive information on their teachers education and the average level of education for their teachers. His max class room size is only 14 students. The schools average ACT test score for seniors is a 27.4 compared to the nations 21.2 or even worse our states average of 20.9. Also 96% of the graduates attend a four year Univerisity. Although the school does many fundraisers it is to benifit the community not the school. It may seem as though this is a very expensive high class private school but it is not. It is a local Christian school where is tuition for elementary classes is actually 1/4 of his day care cost. I know this is very specific information for my sons school however, I found very simular standards at all the schools in the area I visited before choosing this one.

Thank you for answering the ridiculous statements made, point by point, which I don't have the patience for!
As a private school parent who wouldn't dream of denigrating public schools, I appreciate you providing the facts.

I'll address your points one at a time below but first I want to say I feel you are defining a group of schools based on very little information on the group as a whole.
1.Private school teachers are less qualified, less educated and less experienced than public school teachers. They are often parents who have lost their day job, or nursery school teachers promoted beyond their experience. - Every teacher at my daughter's school is fully accredited. They are teaching at an independent school because they have more of a voice in the education process there than they did at a public school.
2. Private school standardized test scores (ERB) are not published. What are they hiding? - My daughter's schools scores are posted for everyone to see and they are markedly higher they the public schools in the area.
3. Studies show private school students are much more likely to drop out of college than public school students. - The article you posted was from an Australian paper. Do you have anything to back this up for universities here in the US?
4. Private school class size is often larger than public school class size. Often classes are larger than the CA public school 20 student per class K-3 cap, especially in religious schools. Public schools have many more volunteers, including student teachers, in the classroom, reducing the published teacher/student ratio. - The maximum class size at my daughters school is 15 and if the class size goes above 10 there is a teachers aid in the class at all times. The average size is 10.
5. Private schools have little sense of community. They tend to be drive-and-drop schools, not neighborhood schools. - The charter for the school mandates parent involvement, something that never happens at a public school. In talking to the parents of the current kindergarten class, they have a group play day one weekend at least once a month. I've never even heard of that happening with a public school.
6. Private schools can close at will without public hearings. - This is true, but if you are involved in your child's school you are not likely to be caught unawares.
7. Private schools are often so far in debt their main focus is fund raising, not education. - Yes, the school has fund raisers but they are not in debt and they have no more fund raisers than public schools now have.
8. Private schools are racially homogeneous, promoting ignorance about and prejudice toward other races. - There are close to a dozen different nationalities and almost as many religions at my daughters school. Being an independent school they can talk about their divers religious beliefs with out problems.
9. Bullying is more of a problem in private than in public schools. Public schools have zero tolerance for bullying. Bullying by children whose parents contribute financially to the school is often tolerated in private schools. - On admittance to this school you sign a contact of citizenship. Behavior such as you describe isn't tolerated. It's fine to say that public schools have a zero tolerance policy but in reality it's just that, a policy. One of the reasons our daughter is going to an independent school is the lack of behavior control at public schools.
10. Private school problems are hidden from the general public as well as from families in the schools, unlike public school problems, which are always widely reported. - If you want to know about a problem at any school you usually have to be involved and ask.
11. Local newspapers accept advertising dollars from private schools, leading to a lack of journalistic integrity in school reporting. - I don't know about anyone else but I can't tell you the last time I saw an ad of any size for a private school in the LA Times. Considering that they have done article about big advertisers like airlines and car companies, I hardly think it's likely that they'd pull any punches about a private school.

Your comments about drop out rates are ridiculous. You obviously know nothing about what you are talking about. Stick to the public schools you have experience with.
"studies show" oh, that's reliable. Grow up.

On a lighter note, check out the super funny fiction-based-on-fact novel about private school, 'Academy X', by Andrew Trees. Based on a NY private school but captures the essence of private schools everywhere.

I am amazed at how nasty people can get. How about respecting other people's opinions? If I showed you the matriculation lists from my childrens' private schools you would't be so smug. And that is absolute bologna about the teachers not being qualified. And I have a daughter who is a public school teacher in Boston so I have a view of both sides - there are reasons for people's choices and you really don't have to be so smug. We live in a big city - so if my kids go to private school does that mean that they are any more "in the cave" than someone that goes to a public school in a wealthy suburb?

This is a rather emotional, fact-free view of private schools. If you'd like a more objective view of private schools (which are far more diverse than public schools, see here):

community.greatschools.net/advice/168/What-Does--Private-School--Mean-in-the-US---How-is-it-different-than-Public-Sch-

You hit the nail on the head. Private schools, are just that ...private! I'd like to expose my children to the Public, after all, isn't that what the world is all about? If you want to be private, then crawl inside a cave and deal with the consequences.

Wow, many of your points can be applied to my local public schools (including charter) as well as private. It just depends on the community, administration, and parent involvement.

I don't believe such a generalization can be made of all private schools. One example I have is Hershey School. It is private and completely funded by Hershey Park. Students don't pay for anything, not even room and board. None of the above points apply to this school.

Have a nice day.

Boy, colevalleymom, you are certainly painting with a big, wide brush!

It sounds like you are really, really angry with what is going on at a particular school.

I've been involved with private schools since 1966 -- as a student, as an alumna, as a parent, and as a member of governing boards. Sure, a given school may have some of the problems you list, but not all. In another reply I'll address each of your concerns.

On my blog, I've written a lot about how parents can evaluate a given private school. Rather than listing all the links, here's the start of the series:

lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2007/01/nonpublic_schoo_1.html

Rather than linking to another post, I'll paste it in here. It is an introduction to the wide and confusing world of private schools -- Private School 101, if you will.

What is a "Private School"?

(this is a revision of an article published in June of 2004)

In the United States (at least in some circles) "my kid goes to private school" has become a chant of status. However, not all private schools mean "highly selective institution of highly rigorous and demanding curriculum".

The "private school" universe should be properly segmented:

* Parochial schools of the Roman Catholic Church (PBS Ethics & Religon special) --typically under the authority of the local diocese.
* What NCES calls "religious conservative schools" -- typically Christian, teaching "back to basics" and a biblically-based science curriculum (i.e., creationism rather than evolution).
* Religious-affiliation schools requiring (or putting a strong emphasis on) attendance at a given church or membership in a given sect (think of the academies of the Seventh Day Adventists).
* What might be called "conscripted" religious schools--the Sacred Hearts, the Notre Dames of suburbia. These schools are commonly run by independent orders of religious. At least here in the San Francisco Bay area, the schools ' curriculum includes theology, but accept students of all (or no) religion, and do not require a profession of faith. There has been a huge growth in Jewish day schools,
* Private schools that are not-for-profit, but follow a particular branded philosophy (such as Montessori schools, or Waldorf Schools)*.
* Proprietary schools, stand-alone or chain, whose tuition includes a profit for the proprietors. (NECS lumps these into "nonsectarian private schools"--not distinguishing between not-for-profit and for-profit. ) Examples include:
o Carden Schools:
o Challenger Schools (a chain based in Utah)
o Stratford School (a chain based in Danville, California)
o Pinecrest Schools (a chain in Southern California)
* Truly independent schools, usually with membership in the National Association of Independent Schools. Independent schools are non-public, not-for-profit, pre-collegiate institutions governed by boards of trustees.

What makes an independent school different from a private school? All independent schools, to deserve the name, must be not-for-profit. All independent schools are governed by a self-perpetuating board of trustees. The role of the board is to:

* Establish the school's mission
* Safeguard the mission
* Manage the school and its assets for future generations.

That's not to say that a for-profit enterprise can't be good. It is just different.

At least in the San Francisco Bay area, the distinction between for-profit schools and independent schools isn't particularly clear to the consumers (parents applying to schools).



The Council for American Private Education (CAPE) is an association of associations. It has a page outlining all the different types of schools that make up the CAPE landscape.

Our nation is blessed by a rich diversity of private schools -- some rooted in religious traditions, some that provide intensive academic experiences, some that reflect a particular pedagogy, and some that are specialized for specific populations. These diverse schools and strong, often faith-based, communities help fulfill the American ideal of educational pluralism and collectively contribute to the common good.

The National Independent Private Schools Association is an association of for-profit (proprietary) elementary through high school institutions.

Another type of private school is the proprietary academic school organized as a for-profit corporation. There are about 1,000 in the country, according to Jim Williams of the National Independent Private Schools Association. "We are the tax-paying schools," Williams says. "Most schools start with an idea, the vision of someone. Many of the people who start proprietary schools are disenchanted public-school or disappointed independent-school teachers who don't want to deal with a board of directors or a school board." He points out that most of the elite prep schools of the 19th century began as proprietary schools with fees paid to headmasters. "People who get involved with proprietary schools are pleased with what they see," Williams says.

One thing about the Challenger program -- I don't think they sought accreditation with WASC. The Stratford Los Gatos campus is accredited, and the Sunnyvale campus is a candidate for accreditation, but the others don't seem to be. Accreditation, or progress toward accreditation, is something I'd be concerned about, as a parent.

================
*Some people make the case that a Waldorf school is actually a religious school system hiding behind a facade of progressive, arts-based education

You do realize, of course, that this is an Australian newspaper.

I am not sure the situation is the same than in the US.

I am sure there are private schools that are as bad as you say, but they are also public schools that are bad, and there are a large variety of private and public schools.

When looking at a school, I prefer to look at which is the best fit for my kids and their needs, which means I will look at all schools with a lot of caution, without prejudice.

The points above cannot be made against all private schools.
www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/5

Can't find the original link, but here's another of the same type.
www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/21/1029114133194.html

I'm curious about the study you mentioned regarding college drop-out rates of public vs. private school educated kids. Is there a particular study to which you could direct us? Thanks!